7 ms·
Somewhat interesting that the full context of the thread is not published or any discussion around it, only the one sentence from Musk and a few words from the
by Dig1t 3y ago
Somewhat interesting that the full context of the thread is not published or any discussion around it, only the one sentence from Musk and a few words from the post to which he was responding.
- xenospn 3y agoWhat possible context could have made this any better?
- xcv123 3y ago[flagged]
- Dig1t 3y agoThe ADL also defines racism as something that only white people are capable of. https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/anti-defamation-league-racism-definition/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/anti-defamation-league-rac... They changed the definition in 2022 from: "Racism is the belief that a particular race is superior or inferior to another, that a person’s social and moral traits are predetermined by his or her inborn biological characteristics. Racial separatism is the belief, most of the time based on racism, that different races should remain segregated and apart from one another." to "The marginalization and/or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges white people." There is at least SOME nuance here.
- xcv123 3y ago[flagged]
- pharrington 3y agoThe is nothing "anti-white" about acknowledging race based privilege in a given society.
- xcv123 3y ago[flagged]
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agowhite privilege doesn't preclude being disadvantaged or struggling, what a weird hangup > having "white privilege" then yes it is racist by definition. When kids are taught that white people are inherently evil oh, okay, I see I am speaking with someone who is delusional, and likely has a chip on their shoulder. If you can come up with evidence that any significant number of kids are being taught that white people are, and I'm quoting you here, "inherently evil", I'll eat my hat.
- xcv123 3y agoThe issue of Critical Race Theory (CRT) in schools has been a subject of intense controversy and public debate for several years and many states have banned it already. Many states have legislated against it. There is an abundance of legal documentation you can read to find out why.
- orwin 3y agoDo you know what Critical Race Theory is? Or its superset, Critical theory? If it's taught at any level below highschool the US is probably the best educated country in the world, and critical thinking should be really high (is that why the less wrong movement emerged from your country?). In any case, I would be impressed, but I would understand the reasons to not teach it too early.
- xcv123 3y agoYeah I studied mathematics and computer science at post graduate level, including formal logic, and consider CRT to be a pseudo-intellectual field of "study" that actively destroys critical thinking. There is no intellectual rigor in that. They produce indoctrinated midwits and are lobotomizing young people. Merely having "critical" in the title does not mean that it actually teaches critical thinking. Critical Theory has absolutely nothing to do with teaching critical thinking. > is that why the less wrong movement emerged from your country? I live far away from the USA in a very "progressive" country.
- usefulcat 3y agoAccording to the article you linked, the 'white people' definition was in use from 2020-2022, and then they broadened the definition in 2022: "Since 2020, the ADL had described racism as 'the marginalization and/or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges White people.'" "As of Friday [February 4th 2022], the group’s new and 'interim' definition states that racism 'occurs when individuals or institutions show more favorable evaluation or treatment of an individual or group based on race or ethnicity.'"
- happytoexplain 3y agoDid you read the Tweet Musk was replying to? What he said was much more broad and hateful than the much more specific opinion that "It's okay to be white" is not usually used in a hateful way. Musk chose to be broad on purpose - it's a common tactic for this kind of provocative shitposting. I.e., purposefully declining to distance yourself from obvious implications like any honest person would with just a few words or choosing a different context for your comment. The result is that your social/political enemies get (rightfully) upset with you, but you've left yourself a margin in which you can use weasel words to defend yourself and claim that your critics are trying to censor your innocent speech, or whatever.
- xcv123 3y agoThere is a strong racist ideological movement against "white people" in modern academia and society in general, and the ADL is fully aligned with this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteness_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteness_theory This is the issue that Elon Musk is concerned with.
- Semaphor 3y agoSo why didn't he reply to a comment about that?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- sujal 3y agoIt’s wild that you think anything on that Wikipedia page describes anything resembling a movement “against ‘white people’”. You’re bending over backwards to find the context in Musk’s comment (which many, up and down this thread, have correctly criticized). Then you take the attitude you ascribe to musk critics and apply that to a reading of an academic theory that’s not actually taught in grade schools.
- xcv123 3y ago
- kps 3y agoThe tweet that Musk endorsed referred to “western Jewish populations”, not to the ADL. https://nitter.net/breakingbaht/status/1724892505647296620 https://nitter.net/breakingbaht/status/1724892505647296620
- xcv123 3y agoThe ADL is a major Jewish organization that is widely supported by the American Jewish community. It's not some tiny irrelevant fringe group within their community. He explained further in the same thread.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agoIf you believe there is zero difference between railing on the ADL and railing on jews (elmu agrees with both) then you are completely lost.
- xcv123 3y agoYes agreed. ADL != all Jews. That's the point. 1. The initial comment and reply on Twitter made it appear that Musk was possibly referring to all Jews. 2. His subsequent replies in the same thread clarified that this was not what he had in mind, as he was referring to powerful influential subsets of Jews such as the ADL. If you are completely stuck on #1 and cannot understand or accept #2 then I cannot help you any further.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago1. The initial comment was about jews, not the ADL. I've linked it below [0]. "Jews" != ADL, and he was talking about the former, not the latter, no matter how many failing Jedi mind tricks you try while handwaving away elmu's jew hate. 2. Your subsequent sophistry trying to pretend that his later replies somehow cancel out his initial reply (which hated on jews, see #1) is unconvincing, hence why nobody believes it except a few fans of his. It doesn't matter if he regretted his first post and tried to backpedal from it over an hour after he was widely condemned for it. He still made it. If you are completely stuck on #2 and cannot understand or accept #1 then you cannot be helped any further. [0]: https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299 https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- trogdor 3y agoYou are being downvoted because the post Musk replied to said nothing about the ADL. Geez.
- xcv123 3y agoThe post referred to "Jewish communities". The ADL is a major Jewish organization massively supported by and representative of the Jewish community. He clarified his response in subsequent replies down below in the same thread. Geez.
- dgb23 3y agoAny context would do. I only see some allegations that link to other allegations. My gut reaction to claims like these, especially such severe ones, is always to be extremely suspicious about them. Especially if they are made about someone people want to see failing.
- ge96 3y agoWant a conspiracy, I wonder if some of these negative thoughts are driven externally (external countries). It is cool to hate rich people don't you know.
- shadowgovt 3y agoI hate to be the harbinger of bad news, but... This is the era in which we should all re-calibrate our baloney sensors to be less benefit-of-the-doubt. The benefit of the doubt is giving the fascists room to win. p.s: > I only see some allegations that link to other allegations. Yeah, Twitter is pretty shit for discovery these days since Musk broke the way it works without being logged in under a Twitter account. I solved that problem by not caring; I quit Twitter years ago and I'm not going to re-up to workaround it getting worse. It turns out I don't actually need to know everything everyone says on a topic. I can choose to ignore the signal on Twitter as "Too broken to care."
- KerrAvon 3y agoThe full context: https://nitter.net/Yair_Rosenberg/status/1724910188195348828 https://nitter.net/Yair_Rosenberg/status/1724910188195348828 Text of the Xeet, which includes screenshots: "This is literally the conspiracy theory espoused by the white supremacist who massacred the Pittsburgh Tree of Life synagogue. Musk approves." edit: clarified
- hnthsodhqiia 3y ago[flagged]
- ultrablack 3y agoDig1t 17 minutes ago | root | parent | prev | next [–] The ADL also defines racism as something that only white people are capable of. https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/anti-defamation-league-rac https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/anti-defamation-league-rac... They changed the definition in 2022 from: "Racism is the belief that a particular race is superior or inferior to another, that a person’s social and moral traits are predetermined by his or her inborn biological characteristics. Racial separatism is the belief, most of the time based on racism, that different races should remain segregated and apart from one another." to "The marginalization and/or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges white people."
- Rebelgecko 3y agoThe article says the exact opposite of your/dig1t's comment. The definition you're saying they changed to is actually the OLD definition that the leadership in 2022 moved away from because it was ridiculously narrow. Just curious, did you actually RTFA that you're misquoting?
- jrflowers 3y agoThis is a good point. It is not clear if “You have said the actual truth” is an endorsement of the post elaborating on a Twitter user’s explanation about why they agree with Hitler about Jewish people. Such a vague statement can be interpreted in so many different and nuanced ways
- Dig1t 3y agoMusk posted follow-up responses to his own response to someone who is Jewish. There is nuance in the discussion that is being completely lost. Here is one of his responses further down: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1724934935943979269 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1724934935943979269
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agothe place for nuance was in his original post sadly, this is a common occurrence for elmu, saying something horrible with a clear intention to troll people who disagree with horrible things, claiming his intentionally ambiguous post was misinterpreted, etc. Those who give him the benefit of the doubt after him having done this so frequently are likely just fans of his engaging in sophistry.
- Dig1t 3y agoFrom his original post: musk: "The ADL unjustly attacks the majority of the West, despite the majority of the West supporting the Jewish people and Israel. This is because they cannot, by their own tenets, criticize the minority groups who are their primary threat. It is not right and needs to stop." whatsupfranks: "Yes, but this is not fair to say or truthful to say that ‘Jewish communities’ promote dialectical hatred towards white. Say what you want about the ADL, but don’t generalize the Jewish community." musk: "You right that this does not extend to all Jewish communities, but it is also not just limited to ADL" musk: "And, at the risk of being repetitive, I am deeply offended by ADL’s messaging and any other groups who push de facto anti-white racism or anti-Asian racism or racism of any kind." To me, it does not sound like Musk hates Jews, honestly don't know how anyone can take that away from this exchange.
- shadowgovt 3y agoIt is the nature of Twitter to divorce things from context. It's a micro-blogging service with a strict character limit. We can't expect people to seek out context or nuance in that ecosystem. If one can't comment on something without opening up one's comment to accusations of anti-Semitism (a problem most people on Twitter do not have), when one is the owner of Twitter, perhaps one could stand to comment less.
- Dig1t 3y agoWell the problem in this case is that there was an exchange of multiple tweets, but you can just pull a nitter link of the one offending tweet and taken in isolation it looks hateful. If you take the full exchange it doesn't read as hateful to me. musk: "The ADL unjustly attacks the majority of the West, despite the majority of the West supporting the Jewish people and Israel. This is because they cannot, by their own tenets, criticize the minority groups who are their primary threat. It is not right and needs to stop." whatsupfranks: "Yes, but this is not fair to say or truthful to say that ‘Jewish communities’ promote dialectical hatred towards white. Say what you want about the ADL, but don’t generalize the Jewish community." musk: "You right that this does not extend to all Jewish communities, but it is also not just limited to ADL" musk: "And, at the risk of being repetitive, I am deeply offended by ADL’s messaging and any other groups who push de facto anti-white racism or anti-Asian racism or racism of any kind."
- shadowgovt 3y agoBecause one cannot access this whole thread without a Twitter account, I don't anticipate the public will see this context. And Musk, if anyone, should know those visibility rules on the service he owns.
- Rebelgecko 3y agoTwitter only shows the full exchange if you make an account and log in