6 ms·

How about electric train or something instead? Something electric, but more efficient? Is there something, anyone knows?

nisa 3y ago
It's already there - https://www.alstom.com/press-releases-news/2023/8/alstom-and-verkehrsverbund-mittelsachsen-present-new-battery-powered-electric-train-germany https://www.alstom.com/press-releases-news/2023/8/alstom-and... Hydrogen is also already used for trains - https://www.alstom.com/solutions/rolling-stock/alstom-coradia-ilint-worlds-1st-hydrogen-powered-passenger-train https://www.alstom.com/solutions/rolling-stock/alstom-coradi...
konart 3y ago
Seriously? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_multiple_unit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_multiple_unit
nottorp 3y ago
Hmm in the long run it's probably more efficient to install wires on train tracks. If you meant battery powered trains that is. Guess it would work as a stopgap measure.
- zardo 3y ago
  While every other country comes to that conclusion, somehow in the US we keep deciding that running wires is too expensive and we can save money with hydrogen fuel cells or fast charging batteries. Probably because the cost numbers for systems that have never been demonstrated can get away with magical optimism, while existing technologies are constrained by historical data.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    There should be pretty reliable data on electrification costs for a freight railway and how the operational costs add up. If it were a substantial business advantage over diesel-electric, why aren't the privately owned rail companies doing it already?
    - defrost 3y ago
      Running wires here, on a train network carrying a billion tonnes per annum, is a bit silly for various valid engineering reasons. Battery trains make sense, they're on order ATM: https://www.riotinto.com/news/releases/2022/Rio-Tinto-purchases-first-battery-electric-trains-for-the-Pilbara https://www.riotinto.com/news/releases/2022/Rio-Tinto-purcha... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-20/challenge-for-world-s-biggest-robot-trains-is-going-electric#xj4y7vzkg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-20/challenge... Rio Tinto purchased the four 7MWh FLXdrive battery-electric locomotives from Wabtec Corporation with production due to commence in the United States in 2023 ahead of initial trials in the Pilbara in early 2024. The locomotives, used to carry ore from the company’s mines to its ports, will be recharged at purpose-built charging stations at the port or mine. They will also be capable of generating additional energy while in transit through a regenerative braking system which takes energy from the train and uses it to recharge the onboard batteries.
    - zardo 3y ago
      > why aren't the privately owned rail companies doing it already It prevents double stacking rail cars
    - nottorp 3y ago
      "freight railway". Why only freight?
FreezingKeeper 3y ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-67011369 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-67011369
gambiting 3y ago
Aren't most trains electric anyway? Over here(in Poland) I don't think I've ever seen a train that doesn't run on electricity.
- Dunedan 3y ago
  > The Polish railways network consists of around 18,510 kilometres (11,500 mi) of track as of 2019, of which 11,998 km (7,455 mi) is electrified. [1] As only ~65% of the polish rail network are electrified, I'm sure there are still plenty of Diesel powered trains operating in Poland. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Poland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Poland
  - victorbjorklund 3y ago
    Technically I think diesel powered trains are just eletrical trains with a diesel generator.
- kzrdude 3y ago
  Lots of danish trains are still diesel
- hawski 3y ago
  This one is diesel even if it is under overhead lines: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:SA132-008_Pozna%C5%84_RB8.JPG https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:SA132-008_Pozna%C5%84_RB8... Some more: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_spalinowych_zespo%C5%82%C3%B3w_trakcyjnych_i_wagon%C3%B3w_eksploatowanych_w_Polsce https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_spalinowych_zespo%C5%82%... This view was common for me some years ago: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/SM42#/media/File:SM42-838_Grudziadz_Poc._Czersk_-_Grudziadz.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/SM42#/media/File:SM42-838...
  - kube-system 3y ago
    That seems like a silly choice, since most diesel trains are diesel-electric... which is a design that can easily be modified to run dual-mode.
jillesvangurp 3y ago
https://thedriven.io/2023/04/18/australian-miner-to-trial-worlds-first-electric-triple-road-train-with-swappable-battery/ https://thedriven.io/2023/04/18/australian-miner-to-trial-wo... Already exists. 160 tonnes, swappable batteries, converted old diesel trucks. Australia has figured it out.
Hamuko 3y ago
Really touching on the third rail of EV politics here.
PinguTS 3y ago
There are lots of electric trains without battery and some with battery. All of Europe is running lots of electric trains without battery. Here in Germany on some tracks some trains also run on battery. As a test case we had such a train for some month to replace a diesel train. They just had to return the test train.
fredgrott 3y ago
hmm, all diesel trains use electric track motors.
ksherlock 3y ago
Electric subways have been a thing for about 140 years now.
orangepurple 3y ago
https://intramotev.com/ https://intramotev.com/

nisa 3y ago

It's already there - https://www.alstom.com/press-releases-news/2023/8/alstom-and-verkehrsverbund-mittelsachsen-present-new-battery-powered-electric-train-germany https://www.alstom.com/press-releases-news/2023/8/alstom-and... Hydrogen is also already used for trains - https://www.alstom.com/solutions/rolling-stock/alstom-coradia-ilint-worlds-1st-hydrogen-powered-passenger-train https://www.alstom.com/solutions/rolling-stock/alstom-coradi...

konart 3y ago

Seriously? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_multiple_unit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_multiple_unit

nottorp 3y ago

Hmm in the long run it's probably more efficient to install wires on train tracks. If you meant battery powered trains that is. Guess it would work as a stopgap measure.

zardo 3y ago
While every other country comes to that conclusion, somehow in the US we keep deciding that running wires is too expensive and we can save money with hydrogen fuel cells or fast charging batteries. Probably because the cost numbers for systems that have never been demonstrated can get away with magical optimism, while existing technologies are constrained by historical data.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  There should be pretty reliable data on electrification costs for a freight railway and how the operational costs add up. If it were a substantial business advantage over diesel-electric, why aren't the privately owned rail companies doing it already?
  - defrost 3y ago
    Running wires here, on a train network carrying a billion tonnes per annum, is a bit silly for various valid engineering reasons. Battery trains make sense, they're on order ATM: https://www.riotinto.com/news/releases/2022/Rio-Tinto-purchases-first-battery-electric-trains-for-the-Pilbara https://www.riotinto.com/news/releases/2022/Rio-Tinto-purcha... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-20/challenge-for-world-s-biggest-robot-trains-is-going-electric#xj4y7vzkg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-20/challenge... Rio Tinto purchased the four 7MWh FLXdrive battery-electric locomotives from Wabtec Corporation with production due to commence in the United States in 2023 ahead of initial trials in the Pilbara in early 2024. The locomotives, used to carry ore from the company’s mines to its ports, will be recharged at purpose-built charging stations at the port or mine. They will also be capable of generating additional energy while in transit through a regenerative braking system which takes energy from the train and uses it to recharge the onboard batteries.
  - zardo 3y ago
    > why aren't the privately owned rail companies doing it already It prevents double stacking rail cars
  - nottorp 3y ago
    "freight railway". Why only freight?

FreezingKeeper 3y ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-67011369 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-67011369

gambiting 3y ago

Aren't most trains electric anyway? Over here(in Poland) I don't think I've ever seen a train that doesn't run on electricity.

Dunedan 3y ago
> The Polish railways network consists of around 18,510 kilometres (11,500 mi) of track as of 2019, of which 11,998 km (7,455 mi) is electrified. [1] As only ~65% of the polish rail network are electrified, I'm sure there are still plenty of Diesel powered trains operating in Poland. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Poland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Poland
- victorbjorklund 3y ago
  Technically I think diesel powered trains are just eletrical trains with a diesel generator.
kzrdude 3y ago
Lots of danish trains are still diesel
hawski 3y ago
This one is diesel even if it is under overhead lines: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:SA132-008_Pozna%C5%84_RB8.JPG https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:SA132-008_Pozna%C5%84_RB8... Some more: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_spalinowych_zespo%C5%82%C3%B3w_trakcyjnych_i_wagon%C3%B3w_eksploatowanych_w_Polsce https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_spalinowych_zespo%C5%82%... This view was common for me some years ago: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/SM42#/media/File:SM42-838_Grudziadz_Poc._Czersk_-_Grudziadz.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/SM42#/media/File:SM42-838...
- kube-system 3y ago
  That seems like a silly choice, since most diesel trains are diesel-electric... which is a design that can easily be modified to run dual-mode.

jillesvangurp 3y ago

https://thedriven.io/2023/04/18/australian-miner-to-trial-worlds-first-electric-triple-road-train-with-swappable-battery/ https://thedriven.io/2023/04/18/australian-miner-to-trial-wo... Already exists. 160 tonnes, swappable batteries, converted old diesel trucks. Australia has figured it out.

Hamuko 3y ago

Really touching on the third rail of EV politics here.

PinguTS 3y ago

There are lots of electric trains without battery and some with battery. All of Europe is running lots of electric trains without battery. Here in Germany on some tracks some trains also run on battery. As a test case we had such a train for some month to replace a diesel train. They just had to return the test train.

fredgrott 3y ago

hmm, all diesel trains use electric track motors.

ksherlock 3y ago

Electric subways have been a thing for about 140 years now.

orangepurple 3y ago

https://intramotev.com/ https://intramotev.com/