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I just saw the Kickstarter[1]. The margins on these coat hangers look so good that it'd make NVIDIA blush. [1]: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/simonegier

I just saw the Kickstarter[1]. The margins on these coat hangers look so good that it'd make NVIDIA blush. [1]: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/simonegiertz/coat-hingers-foldable-coat-hangers https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/simonegiertz/coat-hinge...

giarc 3y ago
Where is the COGS mentioned?
- andrewstuart2 3y ago
  True, I think it's fair that these hangars are a bit more expensive, given they're clearly more niche (so no huge production runs are happening) and given the extra thickness you can clearly see just looking at them.
Workaccount2 3y ago
The margins are likely not that great. Small run hardware manufacturing is extremely expensive. It's not until you are doing volumes in the millions, the factory has invested in custom tooling, and you're buying material by the truckload straight from the manufacturer that prices really start to collapse. Right now she is probably getting the steel off the shelf, the plastic pieces from a small shop, the forming from another small shop, and the construction done by hand. All expensive relatively speaking.
- woadwarrior01 3y ago
  Wooden hangers retail for around €1 here, and it's ~2.5x cheaper if you look at AliExpress. Note that both are retail, the wholesale prices are probably half of that. €19 for a hanger is ridiculously expensive, even if they're individually hand made. Granted it includes shipping, but even if shipping is 50% of the cost, it's still absurdly expensive. She mentions in the video that the plastic pieces are injection moulded over the wire, that's a clear indication that it isn't all done by hand. This is very likely being manufactured in a factory in China, with a 1000-2000% markup. But it's got a great story attached to it, and that's what sells it.
  - IshKebab 3y ago
    Yeah because the people making those cheap coat hangers aren't paying retail prices for materials. That was his point. They also aren't paying western salaries for R&D.
  - tengbretson 3y ago
    > €19 for a hanger is ridiculously expensive €19 for a hanger is the wrong way to look at this. There's no useful application where you'd buy a single hanger. This appears to simply be a way to provide people that want to toss €19 of support to someone they like doing something cool a little something in return. The 12 hanger package is $75, which makes the per-hanger cost of $6.25 still a bit high, but well within an order of magnitude of other high-end products in the category.
    - bondarchuk 3y ago
      Here's a fancy wooden coathanger from Muji that's 20 bucks https://www.muji.us/collections/hooks-hangers/products/wooden-hanger-mafa0s https://www.muji.us/collections/hooks-hangers/products/woode...
    - lost_tourist 3y ago
      or just to try it out. But that, like it, and then buy in bulk. I have seen some -massive' amounts of cloths stuff in closets.
- lost_tourist 3y ago
  Yeah, I worked at one small scale place. Our final products were very expensive (around $5k-$20k, depending on features). The case that the instrument went into cost us almost $150 a pop from a local metal shop, which was (relatively) small and easy to add on to the price of the device, so the customer barely noticed anyway. Of course, we had people who'd worked in mass-produced ventures who complained constantly that it would be so much cheaper in large batches. They projected $5-15 per case, if only we sold in bulk, of course we didn't so it was lunch talk for years. They knew why we didn't bother for more “molded” parts made in China and such, but still never let it go. :) My guess however is that within a few months if this goes semi-viral is there will be $1 versions from ali-express after they get a little time to play around. Obviously they won't be manufactured as well, but they likely will be good enough to fool some people into buying them and working for a few months before they wear out
brokencode 3y ago
1. This is a kickstarter, not retail. It’s meant to also kickstart the project by providing funding to set up the factory, train assembly staff, and recoup R&D costs. 2. You can buy 1 for $20 sure. But they are also selling 12 for $75. $6.25 each is not nearly so bad for a small batch product. Larger production runs could likely be much cheaper. 3. Are Nvidia’s margins really that great? $4.2B profit on $27B revenue works out to less than 16%. Many people who criticize per-unit sales by tech companies totally neglect R&D costs that need to be recouped somehow.

giarc 3y ago

Where is the COGS mentioned?

andrewstuart2 3y ago
True, I think it's fair that these hangars are a bit more expensive, given they're clearly more niche (so no huge production runs are happening) and given the extra thickness you can clearly see just looking at them.

Workaccount2 3y ago

The margins are likely not that great. Small run hardware manufacturing is extremely expensive. It's not until you are doing volumes in the millions, the factory has invested in custom tooling, and you're buying material by the truckload straight from the manufacturer that prices really start to collapse. Right now she is probably getting the steel off the shelf, the plastic pieces from a small shop, the forming from another small shop, and the construction done by hand. All expensive relatively speaking.

woadwarrior01 3y ago
Wooden hangers retail for around €1 here, and it's ~2.5x cheaper if you look at AliExpress. Note that both are retail, the wholesale prices are probably half of that. €19 for a hanger is ridiculously expensive, even if they're individually hand made. Granted it includes shipping, but even if shipping is 50% of the cost, it's still absurdly expensive. She mentions in the video that the plastic pieces are injection moulded over the wire, that's a clear indication that it isn't all done by hand. This is very likely being manufactured in a factory in China, with a 1000-2000% markup. But it's got a great story attached to it, and that's what sells it.
- IshKebab 3y ago
  Yeah because the people making those cheap coat hangers aren't paying retail prices for materials. That was his point. They also aren't paying western salaries for R&D.
- tengbretson 3y ago
  > €19 for a hanger is ridiculously expensive €19 for a hanger is the wrong way to look at this. There's no useful application where you'd buy a single hanger. This appears to simply be a way to provide people that want to toss €19 of support to someone they like doing something cool a little something in return. The 12 hanger package is $75, which makes the per-hanger cost of $6.25 still a bit high, but well within an order of magnitude of other high-end products in the category.
  - bondarchuk 3y ago
    Here's a fancy wooden coathanger from Muji that's 20 bucks https://www.muji.us/collections/hooks-hangers/products/wooden-hanger-mafa0s https://www.muji.us/collections/hooks-hangers/products/woode...
  - lost_tourist 3y ago
    or just to try it out. But that, like it, and then buy in bulk. I have seen some -massive' amounts of cloths stuff in closets.
lost_tourist 3y ago
Yeah, I worked at one small scale place. Our final products were very expensive (around $5k-$20k, depending on features). The case that the instrument went into cost us almost $150 a pop from a local metal shop, which was (relatively) small and easy to add on to the price of the device, so the customer barely noticed anyway. Of course, we had people who'd worked in mass-produced ventures who complained constantly that it would be so much cheaper in large batches. They projected $5-15 per case, if only we sold in bulk, of course we didn't so it was lunch talk for years. They knew why we didn't bother for more “molded” parts made in China and such, but still never let it go. :) My guess however is that within a few months if this goes semi-viral is there will be $1 versions from ali-express after they get a little time to play around. Obviously they won't be manufactured as well, but they likely will be good enough to fool some people into buying them and working for a few months before they wear out

brokencode 3y ago

1. This is a kickstarter, not retail. It’s meant to also kickstart the project by providing funding to set up the factory, train assembly staff, and recoup R&D costs. 2. You can buy 1 for $20 sure. But they are also selling 12 for $75. $6.25 each is not nearly so bad for a small batch product. Larger production runs could likely be much cheaper. 3. Are Nvidia’s margins really that great? $4.2B profit on $27B revenue works out to less than 16%. Many people who criticize per-unit sales by tech companies totally neglect R&D costs that need to be recouped somehow.