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Apple only has dominant marketshare in the US. Everywhere else in the world people use Whatsapp. Why didn't they all hop on the RCS train? Because it sucks to i

Apple only has dominant marketshare in the US. Everywhere else in the world people use Whatsapp. Why didn't they all hop on the RCS train? Because it sucks to implement and is a black box to use. Google was stuck with SMS because of their inability to implement a cohesive messaging app, despite owning and distributing an operating system. So what did they do? Pitched sob stories and got the europeans to threaten to regulate. Shitty move. They should have just built something good.

smoldesu 3y ago
> They should have just built something good. This, but with Apple. Whether or not Google whined about it, iMessage was never going to last. It was never a matter of if iMessage would be forced to reconcile itself with the interoperable protocol it replaced, but when. So... Apple should have been ready. They should have been drafting absurd standards centered around their own servers, and taunting Google into adopting it. They could have even charged a license fee for the software. But instead they played high and mighty, and now they have to contend with the law. Frankly, I'm glad Google summoned Shai Hulud.
- discard124 3y ago
  > They should have been drafting absurd standards centered around their own servers, and taunting Google into adopting it. It's hard to imaging you sincerely think this would have been better. It seems like you want them to engage in dishonesty. > But instead they played high and mighty, and now they have to contend with the law. iMessage isn't going anywhere. They're just going to add RCS support in the same way that SMS is supported, because now there is momementum for carrier support. This is really a storm in a teacup.
- mcphage 3y ago
  > They should have been drafting absurd standards centered around their own servers, and taunting Google into adopting it. They could have even charged a license fee for the software. But instead they played high and mighty, and now they have to contend with the law. Isn't the situation in the EU that they're looking to force Apple to allow others to use the iMessage protocol? So why would Apple work on getting Google to support iMessage, when Google is putting in work to get access to it?
Arcanum-XIII 3y ago
Well... let's say also that the telco investment were not light. That Google was pushing for RCS, and SMS, and their messenger of the moment. Apple refused to implement RCS, because why do so, since there was no carrier at the time proposing it. So yeah, no.
- sudosysgen 3y ago
  As Google demonstrated, carrier support for RCS is not necessary.
lxgr 3y ago
Google absolutely had a cohesive messaging app (Google Chat, later called Hangouts), they just threw it away and tried to rebuild it several times and under various other names and paradigms rather than iterating on it. If they'd simply added a "WhatsApp/iMessage mode" to Google Chat in 2015 (i.e. allow Google account based users to seamlessly communicate with phone number based users), I think we might be seeing a very different messaging landscape today.
- jdiez17 3y ago
  Google Chat was great back in its day (standard XMPP) and had a somewhat "loyal" and large user base. Rebranding it into Hangouts, rebuilding it, and generally sabotaging themselves was, well, their own doing.
- dev_daftly 3y ago
  We wouldn't because the issue always was iphone users never willing to use an app outside of imessage. What good is a messaging platform if more than 1/2 your network won't use it?
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    WhatsApp succeeded. Google misfiring 10 times giving people zero reason to invest was the problem.
- zik 3y ago
  > If they'd simply added a "WhatsApp/iMessage mode" to Google Chat... They'd have been sued by WhapsApp and Apple if they did that since they're proprietary protocols.
no_wizard 3y ago
I think iMessage doesn't have the most dominant marketshare outside the US (and possibly Canada) iOS /iPadOS (and by extension, iPhone and iPad) however, has slim-to-major majorities in most lucrative markets[0] and even in markets where iOS is not a majority, its well known in the mobile industry that iOS / iPadOS customers are far more lucrative [0]: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ios-vs-android-market-share-135251641.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ios-vs-android-market-share-1...
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  This more money on apple thing is a selection effect caused by Apple phones being more expensive, such that the distribution of revenue is truncated.
kmlx 3y ago
> Apple only has dominant marketshare in the US. Japan: 65.88% Denmark: 64.04% Norway: 61.94% Canada: 57.84% Australia: 57.47% United States: 56.74% Switzerland: 55.92% Sweden: 55.33% United Kingdom: 51.63% Taiwan: 51.32% from: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/iphone-market-share-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/iphone-ma...
- aeadio 3y ago
  I think the parent comment was referring to messaging, ie iMessage vs the others. Ie, in Taiwan and Japan the dominant solution is Line, not iMessage or SMS.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  That's kind of depressing honestly. Also surprising as I always thought Android was more popular because there is more variety and cheaper options.
  - doublepg23 3y ago
    I mean with the iPhone SE starting at $429 new Apple has a lot of price brackets covered.
- bastard_op 3y ago
  With every princelet or otherwise rich folk in the world using Apple, does it matter? It's still a race war, apple (rich folk) vs. everyone else. Some middle ground probably, but not much - apple folks are obviously the richer targets. I know who to target with spyware and otherwise get rich quick schemes, ransomware, kidnapping, almost any other major crimes. The best demographic with 1200 to spend on a phone.
  - prewett 3y ago
    > It's still a race war, apple (rich folk) It's not a "race war" if you need to clarify that apple <=> "rich folk". I might give you "class war", except there is no "war" part and no need to include it.
justworkout 3y ago
> Everywhere else in the world people use Whatsapp. Not really. It's dominant in some regions but definitely not a huge chunk of Asia.

smoldesu 3y ago

> They should have just built something good. This, but with Apple. Whether or not Google whined about it, iMessage was never going to last. It was never a matter of if iMessage would be forced to reconcile itself with the interoperable protocol it replaced, but when. So... Apple should have been ready. They should have been drafting absurd standards centered around their own servers, and taunting Google into adopting it. They could have even charged a license fee for the software. But instead they played high and mighty, and now they have to contend with the law. Frankly, I'm glad Google summoned Shai Hulud.

discard124 3y ago
> They should have been drafting absurd standards centered around their own servers, and taunting Google into adopting it. It's hard to imaging you sincerely think this would have been better. It seems like you want them to engage in dishonesty. > But instead they played high and mighty, and now they have to contend with the law. iMessage isn't going anywhere. They're just going to add RCS support in the same way that SMS is supported, because now there is momementum for carrier support. This is really a storm in a teacup.
mcphage 3y ago
> They should have been drafting absurd standards centered around their own servers, and taunting Google into adopting it. They could have even charged a license fee for the software. But instead they played high and mighty, and now they have to contend with the law. Isn't the situation in the EU that they're looking to force Apple to allow others to use the iMessage protocol? So why would Apple work on getting Google to support iMessage, when Google is putting in work to get access to it?

Arcanum-XIII 3y ago

Well... let's say also that the telco investment were not light. That Google was pushing for RCS, and SMS, and their messenger of the moment. Apple refused to implement RCS, because why do so, since there was no carrier at the time proposing it. So yeah, no.

sudosysgen 3y ago
As Google demonstrated, carrier support for RCS is not necessary.

lxgr 3y ago

Google absolutely had a cohesive messaging app (Google Chat, later called Hangouts), they just threw it away and tried to rebuild it several times and under various other names and paradigms rather than iterating on it. If they'd simply added a "WhatsApp/iMessage mode" to Google Chat in 2015 (i.e. allow Google account based users to seamlessly communicate with phone number based users), I think we might be seeing a very different messaging landscape today.

jdiez17 3y ago
Google Chat was great back in its day (standard XMPP) and had a somewhat "loyal" and large user base. Rebranding it into Hangouts, rebuilding it, and generally sabotaging themselves was, well, their own doing.
dev_daftly 3y ago
We wouldn't because the issue always was iphone users never willing to use an app outside of imessage. What good is a messaging platform if more than 1/2 your network won't use it?
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  WhatsApp succeeded. Google misfiring 10 times giving people zero reason to invest was the problem.
zik 3y ago
> If they'd simply added a "WhatsApp/iMessage mode" to Google Chat... They'd have been sued by WhapsApp and Apple if they did that since they're proprietary protocols.

no_wizard 3y ago

I think iMessage doesn't have the most dominant marketshare outside the US (and possibly Canada) iOS /iPadOS (and by extension, iPhone and iPad) however, has slim-to-major majorities in most lucrative markets[0] and even in markets where iOS is not a majority, its well known in the mobile industry that iOS / iPadOS customers are far more lucrative [0]: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ios-vs-android-market-share-135251641.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ios-vs-android-market-share-1...

disgruntledphd2 3y ago
This more money on apple thing is a selection effect caused by Apple phones being more expensive, such that the distribution of revenue is truncated.

kmlx 3y ago

> Apple only has dominant marketshare in the US. Japan: 65.88% Denmark: 64.04% Norway: 61.94% Canada: 57.84% Australia: 57.47% United States: 56.74% Switzerland: 55.92% Sweden: 55.33% United Kingdom: 51.63% Taiwan: 51.32% from: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/iphone-market-share-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/iphone-ma...

aeadio 3y ago
I think the parent comment was referring to messaging, ie iMessage vs the others. Ie, in Taiwan and Japan the dominant solution is Line, not iMessage or SMS.
PrimeMcFly 3y ago
That's kind of depressing honestly. Also surprising as I always thought Android was more popular because there is more variety and cheaper options.
- doublepg23 3y ago
  I mean with the iPhone SE starting at $429 new Apple has a lot of price brackets covered.
bastard_op 3y ago
With every princelet or otherwise rich folk in the world using Apple, does it matter? It's still a race war, apple (rich folk) vs. everyone else. Some middle ground probably, but not much - apple folks are obviously the richer targets. I know who to target with spyware and otherwise get rich quick schemes, ransomware, kidnapping, almost any other major crimes. The best demographic with 1200 to spend on a phone.
- prewett 3y ago
  > It's still a race war, apple (rich folk) It's not a "race war" if you need to clarify that apple <=> "rich folk". I might give you "class war", except there is no "war" part and no need to include it.

justworkout 3y ago

> Everywhere else in the world people use Whatsapp. Not really. It's dominant in some regions but definitely not a huge chunk of Asia.