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Is OpenAI not allowed to have a multi-cloud setup because of their M$ deal? It seems like the limit here is getting GPUs from Azure, so if they're allowed to a

Is OpenAI not allowed to have a multi-cloud setup because of their M$ deal? It seems like the limit here is getting GPUs from Azure, so if they're allowed to also use AWS, GCP, etc. then that shouldn't that make scaling a lot easier?

Someone1234 3y ago
Even if they could, aren't they already losing money for every additional Plus member? The real question is does OpenAI have deep enough pockets to keep subsidizing this many users...
- willsmith72 3y ago
  right now, their pockets can go as deep as they want.
  - Someone1234 3y ago
    But eventually they'll need to make good on that for their investors. So either of two things need to happen: - Generating ChatGPT 4 quality responses has to get a lot cheaper, so they make money on $20/month. - They need to increase prices to make money without losing people. I really like ChatGPT Plus right now, but $20/month is at the top of what I am willing to pay. ChatGPT 4 is the best, but you can get "good enough" for free from the competition. If they increase the price or reduce the quality of 4 responses too much, I'll look around.
    - adventured 3y ago
      If GPT 5 jumps as far forward as going from 3 to 4 did, I'd go up to $30. That was a big jump, I'm a bit skeptical they can repeat it. That's also assuming I get more prompts per hour and it continues to build in valuable features (DALL-E 4 etc). DALL-E 3 is expensive outside of ChatGPT, that's a tremendous value if you use it in the chat system. It'd need to start making me breakfast every morning if we're going to keep climbing toward $40-$50. Although don't get me wrong, any improvements beyond 4 is an accomplishment, it's already an amazing service, I just don't feel like paying $40 for GPT 4 (too much of a price reach). $20 is fair for version 4. They need to keep adding a lot of value the higher they want to go.
      - wongarsu 3y ago
        A $100/month GPT5 might price itself out of most B2C customers, but could still be hugely attractive to businesses. Both for chatbots, and as a productivity boost for knowledge workers. It just has to be good enough to justify the price increase over $20 GPT4.
        oceanplexian 3y ago
        I’d pay $100 hands down if they could simply get it to the speed of GPT3.5 Turbo. Right now ChatGPT Plus is slow and buggy I’ll end up not using it.
      - tiahura 3y ago
        Microsoft is charging $30 for Office Copilot.
      - lukebuehler 3y ago
        I’m paying ~$50 for my cell phone plan. $100 for internet. And all that does is route data. I’d easily pay, say, $200 a month for a system that routes sufficient high intelligence. Gpt5 with a 20% improvement over 4 would qualify.
      - JCharante 3y ago
        3 to 4 was a giant giant leap. 3.5 is basically useless. I would consider paying $100-$200 per month for GPT 5 because of the value add. It has really consumed/improved almost all aspects of my life and I have a chat window open 60% of the time I have my laptop open.
michaelt 3y ago
I have heard estimates [1] that OpenAI's $20/month ChatGPT charge isn't enough to cover the cost of compute. For example, if their model needs ~100GB of VRAM, at cloud prices of $0.08 per minute for a g5.12xlarge. you make a loss if the average customer uses more than 9 minutes per day. And chatgpt's responses are pretty slow. And that's without counting the huge free tier they have to support, the employees they have to pay for, and any overheads. No rush to go multi-cloud if you're making a loss - you'd want to put your efforts into reducing costs. [1] AI chatbots lose money every time you use them, https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/05/chatgpt-hidden-cost-gpu-compute/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/05/chatgpt...
- hesdeadjim 3y ago
  They are in “survive until GPUs have enough RAM for break even costs” mode right now. It’s why I don’t think we’ll see any big significant changes in parameter count for a while because it’s just too damned expensive. I would however be happy to pay waaaaay more than $20/mo for a “gpt-5” evolved model.
- janalsncm 3y ago
  I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. AWS GPU pricing is kind of ridiculous. $30-40 per hour for A100 clusters is several times what other companies offer. I only use them because I have free credits but I would never pay out of pocket for their GPUs.

Someone1234 3y ago

Even if they could, aren't they already losing money for every additional Plus member? The real question is does OpenAI have deep enough pockets to keep subsidizing this many users...

willsmith72 3y ago
right now, their pockets can go as deep as they want.
- Someone1234 3y ago
  But eventually they'll need to make good on that for their investors. So either of two things need to happen: - Generating ChatGPT 4 quality responses has to get a lot cheaper, so they make money on $20/month. - They need to increase prices to make money without losing people. I really like ChatGPT Plus right now, but $20/month is at the top of what I am willing to pay. ChatGPT 4 is the best, but you can get "good enough" for free from the competition. If they increase the price or reduce the quality of 4 responses too much, I'll look around.
  - adventured 3y ago
    If GPT 5 jumps as far forward as going from 3 to 4 did, I'd go up to $30. That was a big jump, I'm a bit skeptical they can repeat it. That's also assuming I get more prompts per hour and it continues to build in valuable features (DALL-E 4 etc). DALL-E 3 is expensive outside of ChatGPT, that's a tremendous value if you use it in the chat system. It'd need to start making me breakfast every morning if we're going to keep climbing toward $40-$50. Although don't get me wrong, any improvements beyond 4 is an accomplishment, it's already an amazing service, I just don't feel like paying $40 for GPT 4 (too much of a price reach). $20 is fair for version 4. They need to keep adding a lot of value the higher they want to go.
    - wongarsu 3y ago
      A $100/month GPT5 might price itself out of most B2C customers, but could still be hugely attractive to businesses. Both for chatbots, and as a productivity boost for knowledge workers. It just has to be good enough to justify the price increase over $20 GPT4.
      - oceanplexian 3y ago
        I’d pay $100 hands down if they could simply get it to the speed of GPT3.5 Turbo. Right now ChatGPT Plus is slow and buggy I’ll end up not using it.
    - tiahura 3y ago
      Microsoft is charging $30 for Office Copilot.
    - lukebuehler 3y ago
      I’m paying ~$50 for my cell phone plan. $100 for internet. And all that does is route data. I’d easily pay, say, $200 a month for a system that routes sufficient high intelligence. Gpt5 with a 20% improvement over 4 would qualify.
    - JCharante 3y ago
      3 to 4 was a giant giant leap. 3.5 is basically useless. I would consider paying $100-$200 per month for GPT 5 because of the value add. It has really consumed/improved almost all aspects of my life and I have a chat window open 60% of the time I have my laptop open.

michaelt 3y ago

I have heard estimates [1] that OpenAI's $20/month ChatGPT charge isn't enough to cover the cost of compute. For example, if their model needs ~100GB of VRAM, at cloud prices of $0.08 per minute for a g5.12xlarge. you make a loss if the average customer uses more than 9 minutes per day. And chatgpt's responses are pretty slow. And that's without counting the huge free tier they have to support, the employees they have to pay for, and any overheads. No rush to go multi-cloud if you're making a loss - you'd want to put your efforts into reducing costs. [1] AI chatbots lose money every time you use them, https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/05/chatgpt-hidden-cost-gpu-compute/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/05/chatgpt...

hesdeadjim 3y ago
They are in “survive until GPUs have enough RAM for break even costs” mode right now. It’s why I don’t think we’ll see any big significant changes in parameter count for a while because it’s just too damned expensive. I would however be happy to pay waaaaay more than $20/mo for a “gpt-5” evolved model.
janalsncm 3y ago
I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. AWS GPU pricing is kind of ridiculous. $30-40 per hour for A100 clusters is several times what other companies offer. I only use them because I have free credits but I would never pay out of pocket for their GPUs.