5 ms·

Back pain is no joke. Great to hear you’re better. Which air purifiers do you recommend?

aaomidi 3y ago
Not op but honestly literally any non UV one is fine. If you have to have UV, make sure the ozone produced has somewhere to go.
charlie0 3y ago
I've gotten the Winix ones from Costco and they work great. I really notice a difference now that it's getting cold and my windows are shut most of the time.
- lazyeye 3y ago
  The problem with shutting windows is CO2 quickly gets up to unhealthy levels. Takes about 2 hours in my office. A good quality CO2 monitor (e.g Aranet) is a worthwhile investment.
  - charlie0 3y ago
    That probably explains the weird sensations in my chest, especially when turning on the stove to cook something.
  - philwelch 3y ago
    What levels are you seeing?
    - lazyeye 3y ago
      1100-1200. I believe in the mining industry anything over 800 inside a truck cab is considered unsafe. Fresh air is 470ish. I try to keep my room around 600 but not always possible.
      - philwelch 3y ago
        If that's in ppm you're nowhere close to any limits I'm aware of. OSHA limits start at 5000ppm, which is approximately where the ISS and most submarines are kept. It's possible that 3000ppm would be a safer upper limit, but you're still at less than half of that. It’s interesting because I’ve seen this CO2 anxiety on HN and Twitter before but I’ve never found any solid rationale for people to worry about CO2 concentrations at those magnitudes. Part of me wonders where this idea came from. Hopefully it isn’t just a ploy to sell CO2 monitors.
        lazyeye 3y ago
        I can certainly personally feel the difference health-wise between 600ppm and 1200 ppm. This is what ChatGPT has to say on the subject:- The difference in acceptable CO2 levels between submarines and office buildings is due to different environmental and operational constraints. Enclosed Environment: Submarines operate in a highly enclosed environment where air cannot be easily exchanged with the outside. This leads to a natural accumulation of CO2, making higher levels unavoidable. Air Filtration and Recycling: Submarines are equipped with advanced air filtration and CO2 scrubbing systems to manage air quality. These systems can handle higher CO2 levels effectively, unlike typical office HVAC systems. Occupational Health Standards: Office buildings adhere to civilian occupational health standards that prioritize comfort and long-term health, aiming to minimize any impact on cognitive functions and overall well-being of the occupants. Operational Necessity: Submarines often have to remain submerged for extended periods without venting or taking in fresh air. The operational demands and limitations necessitate tolerating higher CO2 levels. Adaptation and Training: Submarine crews are trained and gradually adapted to higher CO2 levels, something that is not feasible or necessary for office environments. The higher tolerance for CO2 in submarines is a trade-off between operational needs and environmental constraints, whereas office buildings prioritize occupant comfort and health under normal environmental conditions.
        philwelch 3y ago
        > I can certainly personally feel the difference health-wise between 600ppm and 1200 ppm. You can psych yourself into feeling anything if you buy a machine that displays numbers and prime yourself to get anxious if the number goes up. Why would you buy this machine in the first place, if not because someone convinced you that you should be anxious about whatever numbers it might display? It’s a circular argument grounded in marketing. > Submarines are equipped with advanced air filtration and CO2 scrubbing systems to manage air quality. These systems can handle higher CO2 levels effectively, unlike typical office HVAC systems. The question is the CO2 level in the air that the humans are breathing. Obviously the systems on a submarine or spacecraft are going to be more powerful than the systems in a normal building because they can’t just exchange air with the outside. That’s like saying you need a better heating system in Alaska than you do in Hawaii. That doesn’t mean you have to set your thermostat to 50 degrees if you live in Alaska. You can still set it to 70 degrees. Likewise, if it was important or necessary for a spacecraft or submarine to provide 600ppm CO2 concentration to the crew that is responsible for safely maintaining that vessel, they would be designed to that specification. They aren’t because it isn’t necessary. I’ve seen evidence that 3000ppm is more comfortable and desirable than 5000ppm, but nothing to suggest that 1200ppm is of any concern. And frankly, it’s insulting to my “general intelligence” that you would have ChatGPT (which is not an AGI) argue with me in the first place. One would expect GPT’s reasoning here to have flaws which a moment of critical thinking can uncover. Now that I have done so, do you have any thoughts of your own to provide?
moooo99 3y ago
If you're into smart home stuff, I can recommend the IKEA STARKVIND. It integrates nicely into the room, filters are decently easy to swap and Zigbee works well with Home Assistant
nucleardog 3y ago
If you’re looking for a weekend project and are even slightly handy… a fan and a decent furnace filter is a good cheap solution. I’ve got two 3M filtrete filters, some activated charcoal sitting in front of them, and a small duct fan to pull air through it all. (Build information is in this comment and the one reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37223106 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37223106). For what a filter rated for 600sqft would have cost me, I instead got one that can do 3,000sqft. Or more usefully less space with more air changes per hour (like ten per hour instead of two). I’ve got a $600-ish German air quality monitor that says it does what it should, which makes sense because as long as you’re pulling air through the filters… they’re gonna filter. If you’re looking smaller scale, you can buy sheets of activated charcoal and sheets of MERV13 filter material. A little 120mm fan and a tiny filter box could run pretty quietly in an office and do the trick. However I think the most important advice I’d give (and also the cheapest!) is to, unless you’re in a _heavily_ polluted area, open your windows. No air filter you’re going to get will remove CO2 and once you start measuring it you’d be amazed/horrified how quickly it builds up indoors to “brain fog” levels.

Not op but honestly literally any non UV one is fine. If you have to have UV, make sure the ozone produced has somewhere to go.

charlie0 3y ago

I've gotten the Winix ones from Costco and they work great. I really notice a difference now that it's getting cold and my windows are shut most of the time.

lazyeye 3y ago
The problem with shutting windows is CO2 quickly gets up to unhealthy levels. Takes about 2 hours in my office. A good quality CO2 monitor (e.g Aranet) is a worthwhile investment.
- charlie0 3y ago
  That probably explains the weird sensations in my chest, especially when turning on the stove to cook something.
- philwelch 3y ago
  What levels are you seeing?
  - lazyeye 3y ago
    1100-1200. I believe in the mining industry anything over 800 inside a truck cab is considered unsafe. Fresh air is 470ish. I try to keep my room around 600 but not always possible.
    - philwelch 3y ago
      If that's in ppm you're nowhere close to any limits I'm aware of. OSHA limits start at 5000ppm, which is approximately where the ISS and most submarines are kept. It's possible that 3000ppm would be a safer upper limit, but you're still at less than half of that. It’s interesting because I’ve seen this CO2 anxiety on HN and Twitter before but I’ve never found any solid rationale for people to worry about CO2 concentrations at those magnitudes. Part of me wonders where this idea came from. Hopefully it isn’t just a ploy to sell CO2 monitors.
      - lazyeye 3y ago
        I can certainly personally feel the difference health-wise between 600ppm and 1200 ppm. This is what ChatGPT has to say on the subject:- The difference in acceptable CO2 levels between submarines and office buildings is due to different environmental and operational constraints. Enclosed Environment: Submarines operate in a highly enclosed environment where air cannot be easily exchanged with the outside. This leads to a natural accumulation of CO2, making higher levels unavoidable. Air Filtration and Recycling: Submarines are equipped with advanced air filtration and CO2 scrubbing systems to manage air quality. These systems can handle higher CO2 levels effectively, unlike typical office HVAC systems. Occupational Health Standards: Office buildings adhere to civilian occupational health standards that prioritize comfort and long-term health, aiming to minimize any impact on cognitive functions and overall well-being of the occupants. Operational Necessity: Submarines often have to remain submerged for extended periods without venting or taking in fresh air. The operational demands and limitations necessitate tolerating higher CO2 levels. Adaptation and Training: Submarine crews are trained and gradually adapted to higher CO2 levels, something that is not feasible or necessary for office environments. The higher tolerance for CO2 in submarines is a trade-off between operational needs and environmental constraints, whereas office buildings prioritize occupant comfort and health under normal environmental conditions.
        philwelch 3y ago
        > I can certainly personally feel the difference health-wise between 600ppm and 1200 ppm. You can psych yourself into feeling anything if you buy a machine that displays numbers and prime yourself to get anxious if the number goes up. Why would you buy this machine in the first place, if not because someone convinced you that you should be anxious about whatever numbers it might display? It’s a circular argument grounded in marketing. > Submarines are equipped with advanced air filtration and CO2 scrubbing systems to manage air quality. These systems can handle higher CO2 levels effectively, unlike typical office HVAC systems. The question is the CO2 level in the air that the humans are breathing. Obviously the systems on a submarine or spacecraft are going to be more powerful than the systems in a normal building because they can’t just exchange air with the outside. That’s like saying you need a better heating system in Alaska than you do in Hawaii. That doesn’t mean you have to set your thermostat to 50 degrees if you live in Alaska. You can still set it to 70 degrees. Likewise, if it was important or necessary for a spacecraft or submarine to provide 600ppm CO2 concentration to the crew that is responsible for safely maintaining that vessel, they would be designed to that specification. They aren’t because it isn’t necessary. I’ve seen evidence that 3000ppm is more comfortable and desirable than 5000ppm, but nothing to suggest that 1200ppm is of any concern. And frankly, it’s insulting to my “general intelligence” that you would have ChatGPT (which is not an AGI) argue with me in the first place. One would expect GPT’s reasoning here to have flaws which a moment of critical thinking can uncover. Now that I have done so, do you have any thoughts of your own to provide?

moooo99 3y ago

If you're into smart home stuff, I can recommend the IKEA STARKVIND. It integrates nicely into the room, filters are decently easy to swap and Zigbee works well with Home Assistant

nucleardog 3y ago

If you’re looking for a weekend project and are even slightly handy… a fan and a decent furnace filter is a good cheap solution. I’ve got two 3M filtrete filters, some activated charcoal sitting in front of them, and a small duct fan to pull air through it all. (Build information is in this comment and the one reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37223106 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37223106). For what a filter rated for 600sqft would have cost me, I instead got one that can do 3,000sqft. Or more usefully less space with more air changes per hour (like ten per hour instead of two). I’ve got a $600-ish German air quality monitor that says it does what it should, which makes sense because as long as you’re pulling air through the filters… they’re gonna filter. If you’re looking smaller scale, you can buy sheets of activated charcoal and sheets of MERV13 filter material. A little 120mm fan and a tiny filter box could run pretty quietly in an office and do the trick. However I think the most important advice I’d give (and also the cheapest!) is to, unless you’re in a _heavily_ polluted area, open your windows. No air filter you’re going to get will remove CO2 and once you start measuring it you’d be amazed/horrified how quickly it builds up indoors to “brain fog” levels.