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The Extreme Ambitions of West Bank Settlers
- mathieuh 3y agoIt must be quite an experience to talk to someone who unabashedly calls for apartheid. I'm more familiar in the west with people making racist or homophobic or whatever statements but then denying that they are themselves racist or homophobic. To see someone just lean into and say "we the Jews are the sovereigns in the state of Israel and in the Land of Israel. They have to accept it" is something else.
- draw_down 3y agoOne way or the other, I rather imagine that apartheid would still be a half-measure in the eyes of this person.
- newsclues 3y agoSeems like calling for the genocide of Jews perhaps has in part lead to this. When facing an existential crisis, people unite for security.
- narinxas 3y agofrom the other side: "in order to unify people, give them a common enemy"
- jampekka 3y agoGenocide for a genocide makes the world what?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- newsclues 3y agoStupid.
- dzolob 3y agoSure your existence is at threat. Specially when your land is being taken, your houses are being bulldozed, your hospitals and schools bombed, and you deserve it because “you didn’t do anything to prevent becoming a human shield”, or should I say, because you are “an animal”.
- newsclues 3y agoBoth sides feel the same, their existence is at risk. Israeli authorities built iron dome to protect their citizens. What did Hamas do to protect their existence, rockets, suicide attackers and hostage taking? Struggling to find the equivalence.
- true_religion 3y agoI don’t think anyone supports Hamas. Even Palestinians don’t seem to truly support them, but are living in resignation as Hamas has done away with the democratic process. To me it seems like Hamas is a puppet of foreign powers who want to destroy or harass Israel, not save Palestine. Hamas actions are designed to trigger an extreme response, but now that it’s here… most of the fallout is happening to people who don’t deserve it, don’t support Hamas, and simply don’t want to die. Israel is currently digging a grave, but they are going to bury their reputation along with their enemies.
- tivert 3y ago> I don’t think anyone supports Hamas. Even Palestinians don’t seem to truly support them That's not true: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-sh...: > Nevertheless, there is widespread popular appeal for competing armed Palestinian factions, including those involved in the attack. Overall, 57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas—along with similar percentages of Palestinians in the West Bank (52%) and East Jerusalem (64%)—though Gazans who express this opinion of Hamas are fewer than the number of Gazans who have a positive view of Fatah (64%). > But it is organizations like Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and Lion’s Den that receive the most widespread popular support in Gaza. About three quarters of Gazans express support for both groups, including 40% who see the Lion’s Den in a “very positive” light, an attitude shared by a similar percentage of West Bank residents.
- jampekka 3y agoAnd it's quite a thing that criticizing this gets you labeled as a racist, even though the thing you are criticizing is actual literal full blown racism.
- true_religion 3y agoAdjuration of land disputes between two similar tribes really shouldn’t open one up to accusations of racism by default. It’s the explanation of why Israel ought to have the land that may or may not be racist. For example if someone says they have right to it by conquest, then that’s not a racist argument… it’s “just” barbaric.
- ant6n 3y agoSo some Palestinians shout „from the river to the sea“, sometimes with „Palestine will be free“, sometimes with „we demand equality“. And that slogan is often interpreted as demanding the eradication of Israel. This lady shouts „from the river to the river“, and means Nile and Euphrates. I guess she’s a bit more ambitious with her expansionist goals and dare I say more explicit about wanting to build an ethnically cleansed empire.
- draw_down 3y ago[dead]
- tasn 3y agoPeople chanting it from both ends of conflict are terrible people, it doesn't need to be just one or the other. Eradication of Jews is bad, eradication of Palestinians is bad. Though to be fair, I think this lady isn't talking about eradication, but rather relocation (also terrible), and Hammas does call for eradication.
- ant6n 3y agoHamas does, but bunch of protestors for a cease fire carrying „from the river to the sea…“, are they?
- tasn 3y agoI believe the protestors in the west are clueless about what this even means (e.g. which river), they are just swayed by propaganda. Though even if they are also about deportation, it's still despicable (as said in my comment above).
- cuteboy19 3y agoThe English translation is basically very very sanitized. The Arabic original expression is just an explicit call for genocide.
- WhereIsTheTruth 3y agoUyghurs and Taiwan sounds like a fairy tale, from a distant past, in comparison
- actionfromafar 3y ago?
- WhereIsTheTruth 3y agoThe narrative is contradictory, hence the confusion I guess, geopolitics or theology, pick both
- canadianfella 3y ago[dead]
- livinginfear 3y agoI was legitimately shocked by what I was reading. I can't believe her gall throughout this interview. This woman is a monster.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- actionfromafar 3y agoHow many peoples don’t exist nowadays? Uyghurs, Taiwanese, Palestinians, Ukrainians come to mind, surely there are more. Edit: Huh, that was fast article flagging.
- narinxas 3y agointeresting,,, you say it's "peoples"... but this made me realize it is also entire animal species... most mammalian animals alive today are either human or death, most exceptions are famous species......
- jdright 3y ago[flagged]
- narinxas 3y ago[flagged]
- s_dev 3y agoThe West Bank Settlers are 'to me' the crux of the entire conflict. It's why Israel can't legitimately say they're looking for peace when they actively support these 'salami tactics'. The constant and consistent encroachment on Palestinian land to create a feedback loop of faux legitimacy. The UK sent planters to Ireland to achieve the same thing. The Chinese creating island in the South China is the same thing. Manufacturing colonialism.
- ethbr1 3y agoIt's subversion of international order by appealing to other countries' apathy. External countries are generally not going to militarily or diplomatically intervene in a country's internal affairs over "small" matters. Likewise, if a conflict does reach the point of international intervention, external countries will tend to side towards compromise between disagreeing factions, just to end things. Settler Israelis know this. They keep settlement activity "small" enough to avoid international intervention... ... all the while shifting the status quo so that an eventual compromise is further in their favor. Chinese activities in the South China Sea are somewhat similar, but are non-residential. There's a difference between ceding a military base in a treaty and forcibly evicting civilians from their homes.
- true_religion 3y agoThere are something like half a million Israeli settlers. They aren’t exactly a small number compared to the 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank.
- hackeraccount 3y agoYou think if Israel wasn't putting settlers on the West Bank none of this would be happening? I don't think that the settlers are helping the situation at all but I very much doubt that's the case.
- bradrn 3y agoAs a Jew, please let me note: these people are extremists. They are not representative of the majority of supporters of Israel around the world. They are not representative of the viewpoints of many Jews. And even in Israel their views are highly controversial, and actively opposed by large segments of the population. (Look up the recent protests if you want proof.) So please don’t assume, as many people do, that all Jews everywhere — or all Israel-supporters — subscribe to these same views. Many of us disagree with them as vehemently as you do.
- jampekka 3y agoQuite a chunk of Israel's population seem to be extemists, as these extremists are literally in the government. Also majority of Israeli voters don't seem to mind empowering these extremists to further their own interests (this is of course not specific to Israel, although endorsing and actually enacting genocide level extremists are rather rare). Look at the previous protests where palestinian protestors were vilified from all sides.
- tasn 3y agoThey are not literally the government, they are a small part of the government (still troubling!). This was mainly because Ben Gvir promised security and being "tough on terror" and people bought into his propaganda and voted for him. I doubt this will be repeated in the next elections. There have been massive (unprecedented in Israeli history) demonstrations in Israel for the last 10 months against this terrible government that formed and their attempts at destroying the country.
- jampekka 3y agoI said in the goverment. Typically having a minister is the definition of being in the government. That they are not a larger part is of course a good thing. The protests were not about the genocide and apartheid. They were mostly about the interal power struggle, which is all well and good, but not protesting against genocide and apartheid per se.
- tasn 3y agoI'm an Israeli. These people are not the mainstream, they are extreme religious fundamentalists. They are similar to the terrorist movements on Palestinian side and their actions are often referred to in the Israeli news as "Jewish terrorism". Most of them also can't join the Israeli army because of their dangerous views. Don't let these terrible people taint your views on Israel.
- ant6n 3y agoBut then why do we have to assume the views of extreme Palestinians as representative?
- true_religion 3y agoYes it does seem unfair doesn’t it? The Israelis have an open democratic process so it’s recorded that people have disagreements with the governments actions. However, Hamas ended democracy in Palestine so we can never hear of any opposition, even though surely it must exist.
- ethbr1 3y agoTechnically, the PLO also ended democracy in the West Bank. There hasn't been an election for quite some time.
- true_religion 3y agoThe government in the West Bank also strangely holds the notion that they operate in unity with the Gaza Strip but Hamas says they are independent. This stopped the 2018 elections from happening because Hamas won’t agree that its candidates should adhere to treaties signed by Fatah. The West Bank government also claims they can’t have elections unless it includes all Palestinians, including the Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem residents. This stopped the 2021 elections because Israel wouldn’t enter any agreements ensuring the East Jerusalem residents could vote, and would not be penalized or disrupted from doing so. I am largely more sympathetic to this waffling because the West Bank is relatively peaceful, and I can see an election that doesn’t include all Palestinians could create the precedence that the current divisions are valid. But yes, I do think Fatah is also at fault.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tharmas 3y agoNoam Chomsky said it best. Israel has two paths: land or security. Israel chose land.
- jacknews 3y agoWhat an odious old hag. None of this in any way whatsoever justifies the despicable Hamas attacks, but you can see how they might feel agrieved.