4 ms·

> public transit is the answer To which question? Surely not to "how do i get from home to work as fast as possible without stepping in the rain?" nor to "how

> public transit is the answer To which question? Surely not to "how do i get from home to work as fast as possible without stepping in the rain?" nor to "how do i take my family, two coolers, and a kayak camping for a weekend?"

psunavy03 3y ago
To the question "what is one of the windmills posters on Hacker News love to tilt at, as if everyone in the world lives in a downtown apartment?"
nix0n 3y ago
The kayak can be rented on the other end of your train journey.
- abeppu 3y ago
  That really depends on where you're going. Maybe you want to go to a different lake, or spot on a long river, than the train or bus line goes. Maybe your skill level or body benefit from a specific kayak you own. I think this kind of all or nothing perspective, that seems to presume that _no trips_ should involve a private vehicle are not constructive. (I say this as someone who does not own or regularly drive a car.) But _most_ trips probably aren't to go kayaking, and I think it's worthy to consider what a shared transit system that could support a meaningfully larger fraction of trips would look like. What the bus system in your city need to look like for more people to commute on it, or to take it when grocery shopping, or when going out to eat at a restaurant a few miles away? Those are probably the trips people are making more often, which transit advocates should be concerned with, rather than your occasional trip to recreate in nature.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kredd 3y ago
How do you think a significant chunk of people outside of US live? Commute in public transit within city limits, go camping in your car… The problem in NA, we planned public transit so bad that it is very inconvenient to do anything. The second it becomes a better choice than driving, it’ll be used even more. Like it’s a no-brainer for me to ever drive while i’m within the city limits of Vancouver, but for hikes and camping, it’s the obvious choice. Same with metro areas of European cities. I won’t even bring Asian cities as example, because it’s cheating. Chicken and egg problem in terms of investment and public perception though. Inability to build large scale infrastructure also makes it impossible.
- dmitrygr 3y ago
  > Commute in public transit within city limits How does that address my rain question? Cause i'd rather be dry than virtue signal (YMMV)
  - amanaplanacanal 3y ago
    Raincoats are much cheaper than cars.
  - kredd 3y ago
    It is just… rain? I’m very confused if I’ll be honest. Your jacket gets wet, or you carry an umbrella so you stay dry? It rains 7-8 months of the year here, I genuinely never thought of it as a reason to drive so might be the wrong person to answer. As long as I’m not drenched (never happens unless i’m out for a rainy run on purpose), who cares the jacket will dry once I get in.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - _Wintermute 3y ago
    I've heard "some people use their 2 ton car as a rain jacket" and thought it was urbanist hyperbole, but here you are.
timeon 3y ago
Wish for 100% convenience is one of core causes of climate change.
veec_cas_tant 3y ago
No offense, but it isn't hard to look up how people live in cities and countries with good transit infrastructure. A good starting place might be Netherlands (biking infrastructure coupled with buses and trains) or Switzerland (massive rail network). Here is a wiki page with more details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share

psunavy03 3y ago

To the question "what is one of the windmills posters on Hacker News love to tilt at, as if everyone in the world lives in a downtown apartment?"

nix0n 3y ago

The kayak can be rented on the other end of your train journey.

abeppu 3y ago
That really depends on where you're going. Maybe you want to go to a different lake, or spot on a long river, than the train or bus line goes. Maybe your skill level or body benefit from a specific kayak you own. I think this kind of all or nothing perspective, that seems to presume that _no trips_ should involve a private vehicle are not constructive. (I say this as someone who does not own or regularly drive a car.) But _most_ trips probably aren't to go kayaking, and I think it's worthy to consider what a shared transit system that could support a meaningfully larger fraction of trips would look like. What the bus system in your city need to look like for more people to commute on it, or to take it when grocery shopping, or when going out to eat at a restaurant a few miles away? Those are probably the trips people are making more often, which transit advocates should be concerned with, rather than your occasional trip to recreate in nature.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

kredd 3y ago

How do you think a significant chunk of people outside of US live? Commute in public transit within city limits, go camping in your car… The problem in NA, we planned public transit so bad that it is very inconvenient to do anything. The second it becomes a better choice than driving, it’ll be used even more. Like it’s a no-brainer for me to ever drive while i’m within the city limits of Vancouver, but for hikes and camping, it’s the obvious choice. Same with metro areas of European cities. I won’t even bring Asian cities as example, because it’s cheating. Chicken and egg problem in terms of investment and public perception though. Inability to build large scale infrastructure also makes it impossible.

dmitrygr 3y ago
> Commute in public transit within city limits How does that address my rain question? Cause i'd rather be dry than virtue signal (YMMV)
- amanaplanacanal 3y ago
  Raincoats are much cheaper than cars.
- kredd 3y ago
  It is just… rain? I’m very confused if I’ll be honest. Your jacket gets wet, or you carry an umbrella so you stay dry? It rains 7-8 months of the year here, I genuinely never thought of it as a reason to drive so might be the wrong person to answer. As long as I’m not drenched (never happens unless i’m out for a rainy run on purpose), who cares the jacket will dry once I get in.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- _Wintermute 3y ago
  I've heard "some people use their 2 ton car as a rain jacket" and thought it was urbanist hyperbole, but here you are.

timeon 3y ago

Wish for 100% convenience is one of core causes of climate change.

veec_cas_tant 3y ago

No offense, but it isn't hard to look up how people live in cities and countries with good transit infrastructure. A good starting place might be Netherlands (biking infrastructure coupled with buses and trains) or Switzerland (massive rail network). Here is a wiki page with more details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share