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A few months back I had to go to Palm Beach for work. It was right when Miami was flooding. That's over two hours away. But, the Port Everglades, which is where

by xrd 3y ago

A few months back I had to go to Palm Beach for work. It was right when Miami was flooding. That's over two hours away. But, the Port Everglades, which is where the tankers unload, was flooded too, and even up in Palm Beach there was no gas. I drove in there with low fuel, thinking it wouldn't be an issue since I was so far north. But, then couldn't find gas at all the next day, and driving around and seeing tons of frustrated drivers at various gas stations was haunting. But, hey, I have a hybrid Mini, so I can just go to a charging station, right? What a mess. There are at least two different chargers, and the Tesla ones don't work with my car unless I get a "Tesla Tap" (which I didn't have at the time). And, when you look on the dozens of apps out there, you will see charging stations, and then when you get there, realize it is a freaking outlet in a lamp post in the parking lot of a mall. I'm not joking. If I plugged in the cable I carry in the back of my car, it would have taken 8-12 hours to charge up to the full 18 miles I get on my car. Some of the stations just didn't work at all. The apps that you use to turn them on are the worst rated apps on the app stores. As an aside, trying to charge is a horrific experience when you are not in your hometown. But, and I'm not sure if this is just Florida or what (judging by the article, seems like no), even my "hometown" of 100k+ people has almost no working charging stations downtown. It is hilarious that the charging station in front of the power company does not work. When I was in Palm Beach, I drove around to at least five different charging stations. None of them worked. I parked next to a Rivian and admired his range and the ability to charge at those stations which did not work with my car port. Or, finding charging stations which did work with my car, but had no cables open. I finally found a gas station that had gas, and I remember being so relieved. This was the first time I realized that at least with gas, I can fill up and hand over the pump to the next person. But, with electric, you are not only looking for a working charger, but one that isn't in use. The infrastructure isn't there when there is even a slight weather event, and I can't imagine what it would be like in a true emergency when I couldn't just pull over and work on my laptop at a cafe nearby.

nathanaldensr 3y ago
I guess, downvoted because you dared share an anecdote about how vulnerable EVs are in certain circumstances? It seems like people will have to relearn the hard way just why gasoline is probably the best energy storage medium ever invented.
- stephenr 3y ago
  Did you miss the part where they said they also couldn't find any dinosaur juice either?
  - onetokeoverthe 3y ago
    [dead]
- acdha 3y ago
  You might have missed the first paragraph where they mentioned the gas shortages. We were in south Florida at the same time, and there were three distinct groups: people driving gas guzzling SUVs and trucks who were waiting in line for 4+ hours at the handful of stations which had any gas (some of the stations put up signs when they were out, but many did not hoping you’d buy something else since you were there), people who drove high-mileage cars appropriate for the area who were aware of but not worried about it until next week, and EV / plug-in hybrid drivers who were largely unaffected. Yes, gas has moderately high energy density but there is no such thing as a global optimum. For example, if you’re concerned about energy usage or mechanical simplicity, diesel beats it; if you aren’t comfortable causing an environmental catastrophe, neither of those are great; etc. The Florida fuel shortage was caused by flooding which is becoming more common thanks to using gas, so past performance is not going to be entirely representative, either.
  - kcplate 3y ago
    > The Florida fuel shortage was caused by flooding which is becoming more common Is it? I am in Florida now for almost 45 years and flooding like that is neither common, nor happening with more frequency.
    - kcplate 3y ago
      Ahh yes, I forgot that HN rule where pointing out someone’s rhetoric on the acceptable opinion is verboten and creates the downvote effect.
thatfrenchguy 3y ago
> But, with electric, you are not only looking for a working charger, but one that isn't in use. Or like, a 120v plug anywhere at someone who has electricity? That's a lot more ubiquitous than a gas station.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bdcravens 3y ago
  Yes, but as the commenter pointed out, it would take a significant amount of time. > I'm not joking. If I plugged in the cable I carry in the back of my car, it would have taken 8-12 hours to charge up to the full 18 miles I get on my car.
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    That’s specious as i charged my BMW i3 on 110v in our garage for years and that mini hybrid is related. Sounds like they restrict current to it even at 110v?
    - db48x 3y ago
      Yea, that is odd. Wikipedia says that the second generation Mini Countryman (the only hybrid Mini I could find), has a 7.6 kWh battery. A standard wall outlet at 110V and 15A should charge that in four hours. Of course charging causes heat, which is an important consideration. I’m sure that every car monitors the battery temperature and slows down the charge rate to prevent overheating. But still, 12 hours? Wow. A Tesla plugged into the very same outlet would charge to 50 or 60 miles range in that time. Even four hours would be a long time to sit at a charger. At that rate you’re best off charging overnight at your hotel, or during the day while parked at work. A charging network that doesn’t tell you the charging capacity of the station before you get there is laughably useless.
      - xrd 3y ago
        I'm really glad I embarrassed myself in this thread by stating it would take 8-12 hours. I have never really tested the charging (always chasing three kids around!). I do believe others are correct and my assumptions were mistaken. I'm happy to now know that I can expect a full charge in only about 4 hours. Thanks hive mind on HN!
bunabhucan 3y ago
Isn't Florida filled with RV parks with 50 amp 240v sockets?
killingtime74 3y ago
Well if you had a Tesla your story would have stopped at the start. Many people buy a Tesla for this specific reason. Other manufacturers are converting to the Tesla standard for this reason. If you don't buy a Tesla and have troubles afterwards..well you had a choice at the start.
- DangitBobby 3y ago
  Or maybe you didn't, depending on how much money you can drop on a car.
grecy 3y ago
> This was the first time I realized that at least with gas, I can fill up and hand over the pump to the next person I spent years driving around Africa, and it's eye opening to see what happens when there is a major power outage. All that gas in the ground, and no way to get it out! I saw lineups literally days long because of it.
euroderf 3y ago
Probably the USSR could have done better.

by xrd 3y ago

nathanaldensr 3y ago

I guess, downvoted because you dared share an anecdote about how vulnerable EVs are in certain circumstances? It seems like people will have to relearn the hard way just why gasoline is probably the best energy storage medium ever invented.

stephenr 3y ago
Did you miss the part where they said they also couldn't find any dinosaur juice either?
- onetokeoverthe 3y ago
  [dead]
acdha 3y ago
You might have missed the first paragraph where they mentioned the gas shortages. We were in south Florida at the same time, and there were three distinct groups: people driving gas guzzling SUVs and trucks who were waiting in line for 4+ hours at the handful of stations which had any gas (some of the stations put up signs when they were out, but many did not hoping you’d buy something else since you were there), people who drove high-mileage cars appropriate for the area who were aware of but not worried about it until next week, and EV / plug-in hybrid drivers who were largely unaffected. Yes, gas has moderately high energy density but there is no such thing as a global optimum. For example, if you’re concerned about energy usage or mechanical simplicity, diesel beats it; if you aren’t comfortable causing an environmental catastrophe, neither of those are great; etc. The Florida fuel shortage was caused by flooding which is becoming more common thanks to using gas, so past performance is not going to be entirely representative, either.
- kcplate 3y ago
  > The Florida fuel shortage was caused by flooding which is becoming more common Is it? I am in Florida now for almost 45 years and flooding like that is neither common, nor happening with more frequency.
  - kcplate 3y ago
    Ahh yes, I forgot that HN rule where pointing out someone’s rhetoric on the acceptable opinion is verboten and creates the downvote effect.

thatfrenchguy 3y ago

> But, with electric, you are not only looking for a working charger, but one that isn't in use. Or like, a 120v plug anywhere at someone who has electricity? That's a lot more ubiquitous than a gas station.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bdcravens 3y ago
Yes, but as the commenter pointed out, it would take a significant amount of time. > I'm not joking. If I plugged in the cable I carry in the back of my car, it would have taken 8-12 hours to charge up to the full 18 miles I get on my car.
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  That’s specious as i charged my BMW i3 on 110v in our garage for years and that mini hybrid is related. Sounds like they restrict current to it even at 110v?
  - db48x 3y ago
    Yea, that is odd. Wikipedia says that the second generation Mini Countryman (the only hybrid Mini I could find), has a 7.6 kWh battery. A standard wall outlet at 110V and 15A should charge that in four hours. Of course charging causes heat, which is an important consideration. I’m sure that every car monitors the battery temperature and slows down the charge rate to prevent overheating. But still, 12 hours? Wow. A Tesla plugged into the very same outlet would charge to 50 or 60 miles range in that time. Even four hours would be a long time to sit at a charger. At that rate you’re best off charging overnight at your hotel, or during the day while parked at work. A charging network that doesn’t tell you the charging capacity of the station before you get there is laughably useless.
    - xrd 3y ago
      I'm really glad I embarrassed myself in this thread by stating it would take 8-12 hours. I have never really tested the charging (always chasing three kids around!). I do believe others are correct and my assumptions were mistaken. I'm happy to now know that I can expect a full charge in only about 4 hours. Thanks hive mind on HN!

bunabhucan 3y ago

Isn't Florida filled with RV parks with 50 amp 240v sockets?

killingtime74 3y ago

Well if you had a Tesla your story would have stopped at the start. Many people buy a Tesla for this specific reason. Other manufacturers are converting to the Tesla standard for this reason. If you don't buy a Tesla and have troubles afterwards..well you had a choice at the start.

DangitBobby 3y ago
Or maybe you didn't, depending on how much money you can drop on a car.

grecy 3y ago

> This was the first time I realized that at least with gas, I can fill up and hand over the pump to the next person I spent years driving around Africa, and it's eye opening to see what happens when there is a major power outage. All that gas in the ground, and no way to get it out! I saw lineups literally days long because of it.

euroderf 3y ago

Probably the USSR could have done better.