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>I will NEVER buy a samsung phone. Then you're basically out of options for something remotely competitive to Apple in the Android world. - HTC was great but

>I will NEVER buy a samsung phone. Then you're basically out of options for something remotely competitive to Apple in the Android world. - HTC was great but they threw in the towel long time ago. Same with LG. - Google makes some nice phones without bloatware but last few generation Pixels seem to constantly suffering from various SW bugs pushed by Google, have sub-par CPUs and GPUs, poor reception in challenging conditions from the Samsung modems compared to Quallcomm, and suffer high battery drain in comparison to Samsung S series with Qualcomm chips. No go for me. - Sony also makes decent phones on the photography side, but are either overpriced or underpowered, and Sony has a poor track record for supporting their devices more than a few years. No go for me, if I spend big money on a phone I want it to be supported 5+ years at least. - OnePlus used to be a brand I would trust in the past being very happy with the OP 3, bust I got burned with their OP 7T which saw very short SW update period and every update brough more and more bugs they would ignore. No go for me, avoid this brand today like the plague. - The Chinese brands are great value HW wise but full of spyware, dark patterns, and offer very short SW update support, so that's a no go from the start. - Nokia is just selling rebadged Chinese devices with various compromises. Same with Motorola and Blackberry. Nothing worthy of your Euros there. - ASUS makes a small sized Zenfone which I like but costs more than Samsung's similarly sized and specked S23 while offering less years of SW updates. No go for me. - Fairphone would be a good alternative on the repairability, ethical and environmental sides, but those phones are large/bulky as hell, while compromising on performance and photo quality compared to 'non-fair' competitors of the same price. No go for me sadly. Make a smaller phone please. So, who else is left in the race? There seem to be literally no good Android manufacturers left that don't make large compromises or won't screw you in some way down the line eroding your trust post-purchase, as if they're all in a race to the bottom. That's why so many Android users are fed up with this shit show and moved to paying the "Apple tax" over the years.

davidmurdoch 3y ago
ASUS?
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  They're just as pricy as Samsung's flagships, or even more, while offering fewer years of SW updates. Also no go.
  - davidmurdoch 3y ago
    No they aren't (ignoring the nonsense gamer phone category, since those are just a ploy to part a fool from their money).
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      Yes they are. Their flagship Zenfone costs more than the Samsung S23, while offering fewer years of SW updates. That a very bad value for money and a bad deal in general.
      - davidmurdoch 3y ago
        I don't consider Samsung's flagship phone to be their base model S23.
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Why not? The S23 is the one who's dimensions and specs are closest to the ASUS Zenfone 10 yet is also cheaper to boot and offers more years of SW updates to the Zefone. https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=12082&idPhone2=12380 https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=12082&idPhone...
        davidmurdoch 3y ago
        Flagship means "the finest, largest, or most important one of a group of things". In any case, right now the base model S23 is $659 and the Zenfone 10 is $619.99 (on Amazon US). Maybe you live somewhere where the prices are different. I don't buy Samsung mostly because I loathe their advertising. They plastered historical monuments (like in Rome, Paris, etc) with billboards, and updated their SSD management software to serve ads. Android is often portrayed as a second-rate phone OS and Samsung makes it worse. Aside: the S23 doesn't even have a 3.5mm headphone jack; the lack of which negates any and all other features or benefits.
stronglikedan 3y ago
Samsung is light years ahead of everyone else in the Android phone space, and the only manufacturer that can compete with iPhone. It's crazy that it's true, given the opportunity for Google themselves to try to compete, but they don't for whatever reason.
- dontblink 3y ago
  I think it's in part that they don't want to seem to compete with Samsung so they have to define themselves as mid tier.
- encom 3y ago
  >Samsung is light years ahead In what way? I'm someone who hasn't bought a new phone since 2016, and there are zero occurrences in daily use where I feel it's too slow. I can't imagine being one or two generations behind the bleeding edge in CPU speed to be a hindrance. What are people doing on their phones that need ultimate speed? Only thing bothering me now is its screen size, but not enough to replace it. Unfortunately Apple wants me to throw a functioning device into a landfill to make more money, so they cut off software updates.
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    Yeah, seriously... a little more speed and 7b quantized LLMs would be almost usable. I guess that could be nice? :) But in practice, performance is mostly being wasted on phones right now.
- _ea1k 3y ago
  I don't think this is totally true, tbh. The Pixel 8 Pro holds up really well against the S23 Ultra IMO. The camera generally rates higher in blind comparison tests. Performance is a little lower, but tbh... even my old Pixel 5 was fast enough. Marginal differences in performance don't seem that important to me now in a phone. Battery life might be lower, but I get the feeling that real world performance is really close.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
brucethemoose2 3y ago
Asus OnePlus Many more from what I read... There's plenty of choice in the Android market, even if Samsung makes it feel like they are Android. I might buy a Samsung phone myself, but it would have to be a considerable discount. They tend to be overpriced, and as OP noted they load the phone down with laggy bloatware, so I either have to install a custom ROM (and possibly break some security checks apps require) or purge apps through adb as a half measure.
- ksec 3y ago
  >The Chinese brands are great value HW wise but full of spyware and offer very short SW update support, so that's a no go from the start. ....OnePlus.......
  - freedomben 3y ago
    I would bet GP means the plethora of cheap Chinese brands, not literally every brand from China.
    - brucethemoose2 3y ago
      Yeah thats kind of how I interpreted it, the flood of "low quality" brands. I wouldn't be averse to a Chinese brand with a track record (like OnePlus).
      - freedomben 3y ago
        Same. I have a bit of a hobby of buying cheap Chinese electronics/gadgets and have found some real badass gems[1], but something running that much software with such deep connections makes me pretty nervous. A brand like OnePlus is an exception to that. [1]: This is my most recent toy, which has been a ton of fun and turned out to be a great gift for kids! It is sold by a ton of different whitelabel brands so comes and goes, but is essentially the same product: https://www.amazon.com/Player-Hotechs-Memory-Classic-Digital/dp/B0CK7ZZMCG/ref=sr_1_3 https://www.amazon.com/Player-Hotechs-Memory-Classic-Digital...
Thaxll 3y ago
I have used Pixels for a long time and never felt the issues you're talking about. For me Pixels phone are the best overall Android phone you can get.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >I have used Pixels for a long time and never felt the issues you're talking about. Without specifying exactly which pixels, that statement is largely irrelevant since if one generation of Pixels was good that doesn't translate to the next generations as well. The problem with Google is that it's not a consistent HW manufacturer across generations like Apple. I've been following the Pixel series since the 6, 7 and now the 8, and they all have tonnes of complaints about HW issues related to signal reception, battery life, glass kracking, which Google refuses to acknowledge, to SW bugs, plus hit or miss services in case of repairs. Currently, their Samsung modems are still far inferior to Quallcom flagships and call signal reception is the most important thing for me.
  - SR2Z 3y ago
    I mean, sure, but I've been using Pixel phones since the beginning and the worst thing I've seen is shitty reception in a parking garage. On the other hand, I could buy two Pixel phones for the price of a new iPhone which has been reported to have overheating issues and won't let me do basic shit like install a different browser or sideload an app. Yeah, the hardware is better, but it doesn't really matter to me if the phone is too locked down for me to use it.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >I mean, sure, but I've been using Pixel phones since the beginning and the worst thing I've seen is shitty reception in a parking garage. But that doesn't mean the current Pixel model for sale, is also good just because you had a good older mode in the past. Google is just not consistent at building quality phones over the years and fluctuates a lot between hits and misses in various areas with each model they release. They just suck at building HW and supporting their products. >the worst thing I've seen is shitty reception in a parking garage You see, that's a massive problem for me and a lot of people who see our phones as devices that should reliably make calls in all challenging situations as it could mean a matter of life and death, not necessarily in a parking lot, but hiking, camping, traveling, driving, etc, etc. The fact that my phone has reception issue in some cases, is an instant deal breaker no matter how fancy Google's AI photo tech is. Oh, and cherry on top, last week I had the immense "pleasure" when I launched the Google phone dialer to make an urgent call to my doctor, instead of being allowed to instantly dial a number, I was greeted by a prompt on top asking me how many start I rate their dialer app before I could dial. I wish I was making this up. Who the F at Google thought this was an acceptable UX to be pushed to production?
34679 3y ago
I've been buying unlocked Motorolas for years. They're great and priced reasonably. Their manufacturer exclusive features are actually features.. like I can pull my phone out and give it a quick shake to turn the flashlight on.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
thedjpetersen 3y ago
Wouldn't the best strategy be to buy a cheap Chinese phone and install stock Android?
- arnaudsm 3y ago
  That's what I did recently. Got a cheap Xiaomi ($120 used) with a 120hz OLED display and a mid-range CPU and flashed PixelExperience on it: it feels like a $800 Pixel phone.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    Interesting! I hadn't heard of it, but this looks like a neat project: https://get.pixelexperience.org/ https://get.pixelexperience.org/
hamandcheese 3y ago
Slightly off topic, but this is why "you can always buy an Android phone" is not a valid argument against allowing side loading on iOS.
neogodless 3y ago
FWIW I've owned two OnePlus phones, both bought secondhand - a 7 Pro and a 9 Pro. The 7 Pro was one of my all time favorite phones, and I am using the 9 Pro now. I really like it. I owned a Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra in between, and it was decent but the photos always felt weird to me. Overall I much prefer the 9 Pro to the S21 Ultra. I do agree that OxygenOS 11 was really rough on the 7 Pro, and I held onto OxygenOS 10.3.8 until 12 came out! That transitional period was rough for them. My 9 Pro has OxygenOS 13.1 and it's been rock solid.
- freedomben 3y ago
  I was (and in some ways still am) a OnePlus fanboi, but I won't buy their phones anymore either, not unless they reverse some decisions. Ceasing to provide factory images alone was a major blow for me as I strongly prefer to root, and without factory images root becomes a risky proposition. But the awful bugginess on my OP7 Pro was really horrible. Even just the front-facing fingerprint reader was a sad change. I really miss my OP6, but I had to switch carriers and that phone wasn't supported. The Pixel 5a and OP6 are tied for favorite device. I'll be running this 5a until it completely dies.
helsinkiandrew 3y ago
> Nokia is just selling rebadged Chinese devices with various compromises. Have you a source for that? Nokia licensed the use of the Nokia brand and designs for mobile phones to HMD (started by an ex Nokia exec) a few years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMD_Global https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMD_Global
freedomben 3y ago
Spot on. It just blows my mind that there isn't a great Android phone option anymore! We've had so many come and go over the years, and yet it feels like we're always moving backwards.

davidmurdoch 3y ago

ASUS?

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
They're just as pricy as Samsung's flagships, or even more, while offering fewer years of SW updates. Also no go.
- davidmurdoch 3y ago
  No they aren't (ignoring the nonsense gamer phone category, since those are just a ploy to part a fool from their money).
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Yes they are. Their flagship Zenfone costs more than the Samsung S23, while offering fewer years of SW updates. That a very bad value for money and a bad deal in general.
    - davidmurdoch 3y ago
      I don't consider Samsung's flagship phone to be their base model S23.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Why not? The S23 is the one who's dimensions and specs are closest to the ASUS Zenfone 10 yet is also cheaper to boot and offers more years of SW updates to the Zefone. https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=12082&idPhone2=12380 https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=12082&idPhone...
        davidmurdoch 3y ago
        Flagship means "the finest, largest, or most important one of a group of things". In any case, right now the base model S23 is $659 and the Zenfone 10 is $619.99 (on Amazon US). Maybe you live somewhere where the prices are different. I don't buy Samsung mostly because I loathe their advertising. They plastered historical monuments (like in Rome, Paris, etc) with billboards, and updated their SSD management software to serve ads. Android is often portrayed as a second-rate phone OS and Samsung makes it worse. Aside: the S23 doesn't even have a 3.5mm headphone jack; the lack of which negates any and all other features or benefits.

stronglikedan 3y ago

Samsung is light years ahead of everyone else in the Android phone space, and the only manufacturer that can compete with iPhone. It's crazy that it's true, given the opportunity for Google themselves to try to compete, but they don't for whatever reason.

dontblink 3y ago
I think it's in part that they don't want to seem to compete with Samsung so they have to define themselves as mid tier.
encom 3y ago
>Samsung is light years ahead In what way? I'm someone who hasn't bought a new phone since 2016, and there are zero occurrences in daily use where I feel it's too slow. I can't imagine being one or two generations behind the bleeding edge in CPU speed to be a hindrance. What are people doing on their phones that need ultimate speed? Only thing bothering me now is its screen size, but not enough to replace it. Unfortunately Apple wants me to throw a functioning device into a landfill to make more money, so they cut off software updates.
- _ea1k 3y ago
  Yeah, seriously... a little more speed and 7b quantized LLMs would be almost usable. I guess that could be nice? :) But in practice, performance is mostly being wasted on phones right now.
_ea1k 3y ago
I don't think this is totally true, tbh. The Pixel 8 Pro holds up really well against the S23 Ultra IMO. The camera generally rates higher in blind comparison tests. Performance is a little lower, but tbh... even my old Pixel 5 was fast enough. Marginal differences in performance don't seem that important to me now in a phone. Battery life might be lower, but I get the feeling that real world performance is really close.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago

brucethemoose2 3y ago

Asus OnePlus Many more from what I read... There's plenty of choice in the Android market, even if Samsung makes it feel like they are Android. I might buy a Samsung phone myself, but it would have to be a considerable discount. They tend to be overpriced, and as OP noted they load the phone down with laggy bloatware, so I either have to install a custom ROM (and possibly break some security checks apps require) or purge apps through adb as a half measure.

ksec 3y ago
>The Chinese brands are great value HW wise but full of spyware and offer very short SW update support, so that's a no go from the start. ....OnePlus.......
- freedomben 3y ago
  I would bet GP means the plethora of cheap Chinese brands, not literally every brand from China.
  - brucethemoose2 3y ago
    Yeah thats kind of how I interpreted it, the flood of "low quality" brands. I wouldn't be averse to a Chinese brand with a track record (like OnePlus).
    - freedomben 3y ago
      Same. I have a bit of a hobby of buying cheap Chinese electronics/gadgets and have found some real badass gems[1], but something running that much software with such deep connections makes me pretty nervous. A brand like OnePlus is an exception to that. [1]: This is my most recent toy, which has been a ton of fun and turned out to be a great gift for kids! It is sold by a ton of different whitelabel brands so comes and goes, but is essentially the same product: https://www.amazon.com/Player-Hotechs-Memory-Classic-Digital/dp/B0CK7ZZMCG/ref=sr_1_3 https://www.amazon.com/Player-Hotechs-Memory-Classic-Digital...

Thaxll 3y ago

I have used Pixels for a long time and never felt the issues you're talking about. For me Pixels phone are the best overall Android phone you can get.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>I have used Pixels for a long time and never felt the issues you're talking about. Without specifying exactly which pixels, that statement is largely irrelevant since if one generation of Pixels was good that doesn't translate to the next generations as well. The problem with Google is that it's not a consistent HW manufacturer across generations like Apple. I've been following the Pixel series since the 6, 7 and now the 8, and they all have tonnes of complaints about HW issues related to signal reception, battery life, glass kracking, which Google refuses to acknowledge, to SW bugs, plus hit or miss services in case of repairs. Currently, their Samsung modems are still far inferior to Quallcom flagships and call signal reception is the most important thing for me.
- SR2Z 3y ago
  I mean, sure, but I've been using Pixel phones since the beginning and the worst thing I've seen is shitty reception in a parking garage. On the other hand, I could buy two Pixel phones for the price of a new iPhone which has been reported to have overheating issues and won't let me do basic shit like install a different browser or sideload an app. Yeah, the hardware is better, but it doesn't really matter to me if the phone is too locked down for me to use it.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >I mean, sure, but I've been using Pixel phones since the beginning and the worst thing I've seen is shitty reception in a parking garage. But that doesn't mean the current Pixel model for sale, is also good just because you had a good older mode in the past. Google is just not consistent at building quality phones over the years and fluctuates a lot between hits and misses in various areas with each model they release. They just suck at building HW and supporting their products. >the worst thing I've seen is shitty reception in a parking garage You see, that's a massive problem for me and a lot of people who see our phones as devices that should reliably make calls in all challenging situations as it could mean a matter of life and death, not necessarily in a parking lot, but hiking, camping, traveling, driving, etc, etc. The fact that my phone has reception issue in some cases, is an instant deal breaker no matter how fancy Google's AI photo tech is. Oh, and cherry on top, last week I had the immense "pleasure" when I launched the Google phone dialer to make an urgent call to my doctor, instead of being allowed to instantly dial a number, I was greeted by a prompt on top asking me how many start I rate their dialer app before I could dial. I wish I was making this up. Who the F at Google thought this was an acceptable UX to be pushed to production?

34679 3y ago

I've been buying unlocked Motorolas for years. They're great and priced reasonably. Their manufacturer exclusive features are actually features.. like I can pull my phone out and give it a quick shake to turn the flashlight on.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

thedjpetersen 3y ago

Wouldn't the best strategy be to buy a cheap Chinese phone and install stock Android?

arnaudsm 3y ago
That's what I did recently. Got a cheap Xiaomi ($120 used) with a 120hz OLED display and a mid-range CPU and flashed PixelExperience on it: it feels like a $800 Pixel phone.
- freedomben 3y ago
  Interesting! I hadn't heard of it, but this looks like a neat project: https://get.pixelexperience.org/ https://get.pixelexperience.org/

hamandcheese 3y ago

Slightly off topic, but this is why "you can always buy an Android phone" is not a valid argument against allowing side loading on iOS.

neogodless 3y ago

FWIW I've owned two OnePlus phones, both bought secondhand - a 7 Pro and a 9 Pro. The 7 Pro was one of my all time favorite phones, and I am using the 9 Pro now. I really like it. I owned a Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra in between, and it was decent but the photos always felt weird to me. Overall I much prefer the 9 Pro to the S21 Ultra. I do agree that OxygenOS 11 was really rough on the 7 Pro, and I held onto OxygenOS 10.3.8 until 12 came out! That transitional period was rough for them. My 9 Pro has OxygenOS 13.1 and it's been rock solid.

freedomben 3y ago
I was (and in some ways still am) a OnePlus fanboi, but I won't buy their phones anymore either, not unless they reverse some decisions. Ceasing to provide factory images alone was a major blow for me as I strongly prefer to root, and without factory images root becomes a risky proposition. But the awful bugginess on my OP7 Pro was really horrible. Even just the front-facing fingerprint reader was a sad change. I really miss my OP6, but I had to switch carriers and that phone wasn't supported. The Pixel 5a and OP6 are tied for favorite device. I'll be running this 5a until it completely dies.

helsinkiandrew 3y ago

> Nokia is just selling rebadged Chinese devices with various compromises. Have you a source for that? Nokia licensed the use of the Nokia brand and designs for mobile phones to HMD (started by an ex Nokia exec) a few years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMD_Global https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMD_Global

freedomben 3y ago

Spot on. It just blows my mind that there isn't a great Android phone option anymore! We've had so many come and go over the years, and yet it feels like we're always moving backwards.