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This resonates with me. I've posted my language practice website on HN, LinkedIn, blah blah blah several places, and I can't get people to care. I've finally g

This resonates with me. I've posted my language practice website on HN, LinkedIn, blah blah blah several places, and I can't get people to care. I've finally got some traction on slav facebook, but only just barely. Joining a web ring maybe kind of helped? It's free, actually really free, because it's something I love and want to share. If I post it to several places and nobody clicks on it... What am I supposed to do ?? Buy ads to hopefully get people to use my _free website_? I have tried doing stuff from SEO articles -- open graph tags, descriptions and stuff. I've posted it on social media to lukewarm reception. Someone else mentioned something like delicious. Maybe stumbleupon. Maybe this, maybe that. Maybe some federated bookmarking thing. I think there's just been a cultural shift to "if it's not on FaceBook it might as well not be on the internet", and I don't know how to get back from that. I think most people use their computers and phones as bootloaders for instagram.

Clubber 3y ago
Something I used to do way back in the day was answer related questions on forums and have my website in my signature. It worked pretty well.
- mydriasis 3y ago
  Hmm, that does sound like a good idea!
  - Clubber 3y ago
    Not only are you helping the community by answering questions, it also gives you some trackback links that Google used to weigh higher (not sure if it still does).
- candiddevmike 3y ago
  Wonder if having a "signature" on reddit (or even HN!) like this would get you banned... Though there's probably a tragedy of the commons where high rep folks start selling signature space for advertising/influencer marketing.
  - acidburnNSA 3y ago
    I'm sure it would. They have mod bots monitoring how many of your links are to your own stuff. I run a totally free public education nuclear site (no ads, no cookies, plain old static HTML) and used to answer nuclear questions on reddit. I'd often back up what I was saying with links to detailed writing on my site, but I got banned from a few huge subs for self-promotion. Lol. So for the most part I just stopped answering questions on reddit.
    - candiddevmike 3y ago
      Having self promotion "rules" under the guise of "protecting communities" when it's really to force you to buy Reddit ads. As a user, I've found self promotion via comments way more helpful and relevant than their terrible ads... I would be fine with paying Reddit for the ability to (tastefully?) promote in my comments
      - dhimes 3y ago
        As a user, I've found self promotion via comments way more helpful and relevant than their terrible ads... As both a user and an advertiser I agree. The communities I visit, if not the whole site, are faithfully anti-ad. But if I answer some questions occasionally somebody will get curious about my profile and check stuff out.
      - tornato7 3y ago
        As a former Reddit mod I always found the self-promotion rules problematic. It effectively means you can promote your stuff all you want as long as you pretend you're someone else. It would be better to encourage people to stand behind their stuff. I tried not to remove self-promotion as long as it wasn't spammy (and there's a fine line there).
        radarsat1 3y ago
        Nice to see this attitude from a mod. I rarely have something to contribute to forums but love to read about people's projects. I've been in the position before of actually, finally, having done something I felt was worth sharing, a super rare occurrence for me, and then posted it and just getting instabanned for "self promotion".. it just feels like such a slap in the face from a community that you were enjoying being part of. Then getting into arguments with mods about it and eventually just having to unsubscribe. It hurts.
- HeckFeck 3y ago
  @dang Sigs on HN soon pls?
  - qclibre22 3y ago
    Click on user name to see their profile.
  - andyjohnson0 3y ago
    Please no. Too much noise.
    - HeckFeck 3y ago
      It was said in jest but I think everyone is taking me literally. I liked sigs on older phpBB forums when they were 2-3 lines and just some userbars. Cool back in the day, but they wouldn't really translate to the more minimalist HN.
      - ricardo81 3y ago
        tbf it wouldn't be a bad signal for search engines that can understand forum markup. A boon for search is knowing intent and know who wrote something certainly helps in that regard, if a strong enough signal of course. Without knowing who intends what, you basically rely on the topic and words.
      - NeoTar 3y ago
        From my time in the dying days of Usenet, I can remember there were compact codes so you could fit as much about yourself into your signature as possible. Something like the old dating ad codes, e.g. GSoH = Good Sense of Humour, but more geeky.
        __d 3y ago
        GeekCode, see, eg. https://geekcode.xyz/geek.html https://geekcode.xyz/geek.html
  - 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
palmfacehn 3y ago
The key to creating unique content is to work backwards from the queries which don't satisfy you currently. Answer those questions and expand upon the entire category of knowledge if possible. If you start with just publishing whatever fits your fancy, you're only guaranteed to have the psychic benefit of putting your thoughts out there. If you have to buy ads, this means that the content you are producing already has large enough pool of competitors. Nothing wrong there, as long as you have a sustainable biz model. Understand that at the end of the day, no matter how much HN users disparage Google as a advertisement company, their core product is still search. Search is the process of bringing users to the content which satisfies their queries. We can dispute the quality of results or pine for the search landscape of yesteryear, but the core premise remains. Google still needs to produce a modicum of relevant results. SEO games will come and go. At the end of the day Google will always have an incentive to deliver the meaningful results users crave. The metrics they use to measure satisfaction will change, but the need for satisfactory content will not. RSS feeds, sitemaps, structured data and other essentials are only tools. At the end of the day the content is what you build. Many high traffic sites have completely bungled these basics and do well. Simple to say, harder to execute, but entirely within the realm of the possible. Think more about the value you are providing to the user.
- mydriasis 3y ago
  There's no pool of competitors -- that's why I'm doing this in the first place. The resources for learning this stuff are scarce. I just don't know how to get the word out there. I'm not looking to make money, I just want to give this away for free, because I think it's worth it. I can't even give it away D:
  - palmfacehn 3y ago
    Then you need only change your page titles and h1 headings to better match relevant queries. The other problem could be that there isn't any search volume for that niche.
    - mydriasis 3y ago
MichaelZuo 3y ago
Does it matter that much if only a small number of people know about it?
- mydriasis 3y ago
  Yes -- and this is a good question with a good answer -- because I want to help people who might be interested in the language and culture find it. And I _know they're out there_ by the number of people who at least _tried_ some really obscure languages on Duolingo. It's not for my own vanity, I want to help get the language and culture out there. The resources for it are scarce, and I feel like I can help supplement them. I'm doing the building, but I'm still waiting for the "they will come" bit.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    Why do you assign such a high importance to 'help get the language and culture out there'? The small number of people who have read it will further disseminate it themselves if they truly believe it to be valuable. As long as this is more then a few dozen people, then that should be sufficient.
    - mydriasis 3y ago
      To me, language and culture have intrinsic value. I also feel very attached to my cultural heritage because I'm descended from holocaust survivors. I don't want to simply sit back and watch as the culture and language disappear, and I want to provide an entrypoint for people like me who are interested but perhaps have a little less time on their hands, or who struggle with learning languages. I'm planning soon to start releasing some videos where I read some of the old stories in English! There's not enough of it out there. It's important to me to preserve it, and the best way to preserve culture and language is to disseminate it. and edit -- I'm sorry you got downvoted. I think your question was a very good one, and I don't think the answer is obvious at all.
      - MichaelZuo 3y ago
BobaFloutist 3y ago
Which language? Because I've desperately been looking for a good resource to practice/learn Slovene that's not an expensive course from the University of Cleveland.
- Beijinger 3y ago
  https://www.clozemaster.com/languages/learn-slovenian-online https://www.clozemaster.com/languages/learn-slovenian-online
  - BobaFloutist 3y ago
    Thanks, I'll check it out!
- mydriasis 3y ago
  Bosnian / Croatian / Serbian. I'm adjacent to you, but I don't think they're quite the same, I'm afraid.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
wnevets 3y ago
> What am I supposed to do ?? You're supposed to "growth hack" AKA post on popular subreddits, forums and sites pretending to be a casual user (or use bots) that links to the site while talking about how great it is.
- mydriasis 3y ago
  That feels kind of dishonest... But then, is "justifying means by the ends" really harmful in this case if it's free stuff that I'm just desperate to give away ?:D No ads, no cloud, no data sales, just plz look at my site plz plz. I dunno, what do you think?
carlosjobim 3y ago
Everybody with a subpar product thinks that what is lacking for them is exposure. Most of them start spending a lot on ads. Most probably your website is not good enough to attract a public. Edit: I know it sounds rude, but since you haven't linked to the site, there's no way to evaluate it either.
- mydriasis 3y ago
  > Everybody with a subpar product thinks that what is lacking for them is exposure. Most of them start spending a lot on ads. Most probably your website is not good enough to attract a public. You didn't have to be mean, you chose to be. Whether it's true or not, this isn't constructive criticism, it's just mean spirited. > Edit: I know it sounds rude, but since you haven't linked to the site, there's no way to evaluate it either. And why would I now? Now that I already know you're expecting it to be bad, I'm guessing that whether it's nice or terrible, you're going to think it's terrible. I don't have any interest in sending my website to someone who isn't interested in giving constructive criticism or giving suggestions.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    I've dealt with this extensively in business, taking to business owners who have problems getting customers and think the problem is lack of exposure, while ignoring obvious flaws in their offering. This might not be true of your site, but the pattern is so common that I assumed so. As you haven't linked the site, it is not a criticism of it. I admit the comment is mean and maybe I shouldn't have posted it.
__d 3y ago
You're confusing two Internets. It's understandable, because they have the same name. In one, search engines are advertising platforms, and list reams of content, which is also an advertising platform, designed to solicit revenue in one way or another. In the other, search engines are for finding information, and they list sites that publish helpful/interesting/weird/fun/whatever information for free, in case someone other than the author might like it. Confusing the two leads to disappointment.
- mydriasis 3y ago
  This is a super interesting perspective, I have genuinely never thought of the internet in this way.

Clubber 3y ago

Something I used to do way back in the day was answer related questions on forums and have my website in my signature. It worked pretty well.

mydriasis 3y ago
Hmm, that does sound like a good idea!
- Clubber 3y ago
  Not only are you helping the community by answering questions, it also gives you some trackback links that Google used to weigh higher (not sure if it still does).
candiddevmike 3y ago
Wonder if having a "signature" on reddit (or even HN!) like this would get you banned... Though there's probably a tragedy of the commons where high rep folks start selling signature space for advertising/influencer marketing.
- acidburnNSA 3y ago
  I'm sure it would. They have mod bots monitoring how many of your links are to your own stuff. I run a totally free public education nuclear site (no ads, no cookies, plain old static HTML) and used to answer nuclear questions on reddit. I'd often back up what I was saying with links to detailed writing on my site, but I got banned from a few huge subs for self-promotion. Lol. So for the most part I just stopped answering questions on reddit.
  - candiddevmike 3y ago
    Having self promotion "rules" under the guise of "protecting communities" when it's really to force you to buy Reddit ads. As a user, I've found self promotion via comments way more helpful and relevant than their terrible ads... I would be fine with paying Reddit for the ability to (tastefully?) promote in my comments
    - dhimes 3y ago
      As a user, I've found self promotion via comments way more helpful and relevant than their terrible ads... As both a user and an advertiser I agree. The communities I visit, if not the whole site, are faithfully anti-ad. But if I answer some questions occasionally somebody will get curious about my profile and check stuff out.
    - tornato7 3y ago
      As a former Reddit mod I always found the self-promotion rules problematic. It effectively means you can promote your stuff all you want as long as you pretend you're someone else. It would be better to encourage people to stand behind their stuff. I tried not to remove self-promotion as long as it wasn't spammy (and there's a fine line there).
      - radarsat1 3y ago
        Nice to see this attitude from a mod. I rarely have something to contribute to forums but love to read about people's projects. I've been in the position before of actually, finally, having done something I felt was worth sharing, a super rare occurrence for me, and then posted it and just getting instabanned for "self promotion".. it just feels like such a slap in the face from a community that you were enjoying being part of. Then getting into arguments with mods about it and eventually just having to unsubscribe. It hurts.
HeckFeck 3y ago
@dang Sigs on HN soon pls?
- qclibre22 3y ago
  Click on user name to see their profile.
- andyjohnson0 3y ago
  Please no. Too much noise.
  - HeckFeck 3y ago
    It was said in jest but I think everyone is taking me literally. I liked sigs on older phpBB forums when they were 2-3 lines and just some userbars. Cool back in the day, but they wouldn't really translate to the more minimalist HN.
    - ricardo81 3y ago
      tbf it wouldn't be a bad signal for search engines that can understand forum markup. A boon for search is knowing intent and know who wrote something certainly helps in that regard, if a strong enough signal of course. Without knowing who intends what, you basically rely on the topic and words.
    - NeoTar 3y ago
      From my time in the dying days of Usenet, I can remember there were compact codes so you could fit as much about yourself into your signature as possible. Something like the old dating ad codes, e.g. GSoH = Good Sense of Humour, but more geeky.
      - __d 3y ago
        GeekCode, see, eg. https://geekcode.xyz/geek.html https://geekcode.xyz/geek.html
- 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

palmfacehn 3y ago

The key to creating unique content is to work backwards from the queries which don't satisfy you currently. Answer those questions and expand upon the entire category of knowledge if possible. If you start with just publishing whatever fits your fancy, you're only guaranteed to have the psychic benefit of putting your thoughts out there. If you have to buy ads, this means that the content you are producing already has large enough pool of competitors. Nothing wrong there, as long as you have a sustainable biz model. Understand that at the end of the day, no matter how much HN users disparage Google as a advertisement company, their core product is still search. Search is the process of bringing users to the content which satisfies their queries. We can dispute the quality of results or pine for the search landscape of yesteryear, but the core premise remains. Google still needs to produce a modicum of relevant results. SEO games will come and go. At the end of the day Google will always have an incentive to deliver the meaningful results users crave. The metrics they use to measure satisfaction will change, but the need for satisfactory content will not. RSS feeds, sitemaps, structured data and other essentials are only tools. At the end of the day the content is what you build. Many high traffic sites have completely bungled these basics and do well. Simple to say, harder to execute, but entirely within the realm of the possible. Think more about the value you are providing to the user.

mydriasis 3y ago
There's no pool of competitors -- that's why I'm doing this in the first place. The resources for learning this stuff are scarce. I just don't know how to get the word out there. I'm not looking to make money, I just want to give this away for free, because I think it's worth it. I can't even give it away D:
- palmfacehn 3y ago
  Then you need only change your page titles and h1 headings to better match relevant queries. The other problem could be that there isn't any search volume for that niche.
  - mydriasis 3y ago

MichaelZuo 3y ago

Does it matter that much if only a small number of people know about it?

mydriasis 3y ago
Yes -- and this is a good question with a good answer -- because I want to help people who might be interested in the language and culture find it. And I _know they're out there_ by the number of people who at least _tried_ some really obscure languages on Duolingo. It's not for my own vanity, I want to help get the language and culture out there. The resources for it are scarce, and I feel like I can help supplement them. I'm doing the building, but I'm still waiting for the "they will come" bit.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  Why do you assign such a high importance to 'help get the language and culture out there'? The small number of people who have read it will further disseminate it themselves if they truly believe it to be valuable. As long as this is more then a few dozen people, then that should be sufficient.
  - mydriasis 3y ago
    To me, language and culture have intrinsic value. I also feel very attached to my cultural heritage because I'm descended from holocaust survivors. I don't want to simply sit back and watch as the culture and language disappear, and I want to provide an entrypoint for people like me who are interested but perhaps have a little less time on their hands, or who struggle with learning languages. I'm planning soon to start releasing some videos where I read some of the old stories in English! There's not enough of it out there. It's important to me to preserve it, and the best way to preserve culture and language is to disseminate it. and edit -- I'm sorry you got downvoted. I think your question was a very good one, and I don't think the answer is obvious at all.
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago

BobaFloutist 3y ago

Which language? Because I've desperately been looking for a good resource to practice/learn Slovene that's not an expensive course from the University of Cleveland.

Beijinger 3y ago
https://www.clozemaster.com/languages/learn-slovenian-online https://www.clozemaster.com/languages/learn-slovenian-online
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  Thanks, I'll check it out!
mydriasis 3y ago
Bosnian / Croatian / Serbian. I'm adjacent to you, but I don't think they're quite the same, I'm afraid.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

wnevets 3y ago

> What am I supposed to do ?? You're supposed to "growth hack" AKA post on popular subreddits, forums and sites pretending to be a casual user (or use bots) that links to the site while talking about how great it is.

mydriasis 3y ago
That feels kind of dishonest... But then, is "justifying means by the ends" really harmful in this case if it's free stuff that I'm just desperate to give away ?:D No ads, no cloud, no data sales, just plz look at my site plz plz. I dunno, what do you think?

carlosjobim 3y ago

Everybody with a subpar product thinks that what is lacking for them is exposure. Most of them start spending a lot on ads. Most probably your website is not good enough to attract a public. Edit: I know it sounds rude, but since you haven't linked to the site, there's no way to evaluate it either.

mydriasis 3y ago
> Everybody with a subpar product thinks that what is lacking for them is exposure. Most of them start spending a lot on ads. Most probably your website is not good enough to attract a public. You didn't have to be mean, you chose to be. Whether it's true or not, this isn't constructive criticism, it's just mean spirited. > Edit: I know it sounds rude, but since you haven't linked to the site, there's no way to evaluate it either. And why would I now? Now that I already know you're expecting it to be bad, I'm guessing that whether it's nice or terrible, you're going to think it's terrible. I don't have any interest in sending my website to someone who isn't interested in giving constructive criticism or giving suggestions.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  I've dealt with this extensively in business, taking to business owners who have problems getting customers and think the problem is lack of exposure, while ignoring obvious flaws in their offering. This might not be true of your site, but the pattern is so common that I assumed so. As you haven't linked the site, it is not a criticism of it. I admit the comment is mean and maybe I shouldn't have posted it.

__d 3y ago

You're confusing two Internets. It's understandable, because they have the same name. In one, search engines are advertising platforms, and list reams of content, which is also an advertising platform, designed to solicit revenue in one way or another. In the other, search engines are for finding information, and they list sites that publish helpful/interesting/weird/fun/whatever information for free, in case someone other than the author might like it. Confusing the two leads to disappointment.

mydriasis 3y ago
This is a super interesting perspective, I have genuinely never thought of the internet in this way.