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I'll make this very concrete. I mentioned MIT. The largest community college in Massachusetts, Bunker Hill, has the following math courses: • MAT-093 Foun

by blagie 3y ago

I'll make this very concrete. I mentioned MIT. The largest community college in Massachusetts, Bunker Hill, has the following math courses: • MAT-093 Foundations of Mathematics • MAT-097 Foundations of Algebra • MAT-098 Pre-Statistics • MAT-099 Intermediate Algebra • MAT-100 Topics in Career Math • MAT-133 Introduction to Metric System • MAT-171 Finite Mathematics • MAT-172 Contemporary Math I • MAT-174 Quantitative Reasoning • MAT-181 Statistics I • MAT-193 Topics in Algebra/Trigonometry • MAT-194 College Algebra for STEM • MAT-197 Precalculus • MAT-231 Calculus for Management Science • MAT-281 Calculus I • MAT-282 Calculus II • MAT-283 Calculus III • MAT-285 Ordinary Differential Equations • MAT-291 Linear Algebra Of these: 1) I knew all of this except ODEs coming out of high school 2) Most elite university freshman would know all of these except upper level calculus, ODEs, Linear Algebra, and perhaps statistics coming out of high school. A community college can bridge these. 3) However, a typical MIT student will have finished all of these by the end of their freshman year. These won't even bridge into sophomore year. 4) Even a typical high school student will have finished a handful of these in high school For comparison, MIT: https://catalog.mit.edu/subjects/18/ https://catalog.mit.edu/subjects/18/ You'll see many levels up, first with intro courses like abstract algebra, real analysis, topology, etc., then upper level courses like algebraic topology, and then a variety of grad-level topics which build on those. Neither is better nor worse. There is a need for both. Community colleges form a pathway from unskilled labor to professional work, and that's very, very important. My local community college has no gaps in facilities as relevant to the education they provide. They're cheaper facilities than MIT, but they do fine. Unlike MIT, they don't have a yacht, landscaping, a getaway mention in Dedham, or buildings designed by Frank Gehry and IM Pei. Without those facilities, MIT couldn't bring in families of the social class aspires to compete for, but for most students community colleges aim to serve, there are much better ways to spend tuition dollars. Personally, I think the right point to aim for is the UMass system. Education is better than MIT, in terms of teaching quality, and the course selection is adequate: https://www.umass.edu/mathematics-statistics/course-offerings https://www.umass.edu/mathematics-statistics/course-offering... Cost is a fraction.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
You can't judge course content by their titles. BUT if your kid can get into MIT, they really should go to MIT, not UMass, not Boston Community College, ... Also, MIT isn't Harvard, it is very utilitarian, and ya, some buildings are designed by famous architects, but it isn't a luxurious campus by any means. Like Caltech, it is a complete meritocracy. CCs serve a role for many people, but if you are (smart, work hard, lucky) you can skip them. > Personally, I think the right point to aim for is the UMass system. Education is better than MIT, in terms of teaching quality, and the course selection is adequate I don't know many people who would claim that with a straight face. But it is your right to have that opinion.
- blagie 3y ago
  > I don't know many people who would claim that with a straight face. But it is your right to have that opinion. I think you're taking the opinion out-of-context. The question was: "What are good places to get cheap college credit with a quality education?" The question was not: "Where should I send my kid to college?" The context of the discussion was about finding ways to not pay $60k for freshman year, but to come in with credit. The answer I'd give to that question is UMass. The tuition is $15k. The educational quality is very high. If MIT allowed it, the best-case option would be to _defer_ MIT admissions, do two years there, and then switch back to MIT. Sadly, MIT wants those dollars, and if you defer, you can't collect credits while deferred: https://mitadmissions.org/help/faq/deferred-enrollment/ https://mitadmissions.org/help/faq/deferred-enrollment/ And no, MIT is not a meritocracy. Look at the new learning initiatives it launched, and look at the qualifications of anyone involved in senior positions. Or the heads of many labs, for that matter. It's 100% about connections at the top. Admissions is _somewhat_ more meritocratic than Harvard, where >40% of the white students are admitted are ALDC admissions (athletics, donor, legacy, and children of faculty), but the days when MIT was a meritocracy faded in the days of yesteryear. I miss that MIT, but it's dead.

by blagie 3y ago

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

You can't judge course content by their titles. BUT if your kid can get into MIT, they really should go to MIT, not UMass, not Boston Community College, ... Also, MIT isn't Harvard, it is very utilitarian, and ya, some buildings are designed by famous architects, but it isn't a luxurious campus by any means. Like Caltech, it is a complete meritocracy. CCs serve a role for many people, but if you are (smart, work hard, lucky) you can skip them. > Personally, I think the right point to aim for is the UMass system. Education is better than MIT, in terms of teaching quality, and the course selection is adequate I don't know many people who would claim that with a straight face. But it is your right to have that opinion.

blagie 3y ago
> I don't know many people who would claim that with a straight face. But it is your right to have that opinion. I think you're taking the opinion out-of-context. The question was: "What are good places to get cheap college credit with a quality education?" The question was not: "Where should I send my kid to college?" The context of the discussion was about finding ways to not pay $60k for freshman year, but to come in with credit. The answer I'd give to that question is UMass. The tuition is $15k. The educational quality is very high. If MIT allowed it, the best-case option would be to _defer_ MIT admissions, do two years there, and then switch back to MIT. Sadly, MIT wants those dollars, and if you defer, you can't collect credits while deferred: https://mitadmissions.org/help/faq/deferred-enrollment/ https://mitadmissions.org/help/faq/deferred-enrollment/ And no, MIT is not a meritocracy. Look at the new learning initiatives it launched, and look at the qualifications of anyone involved in senior positions. Or the heads of many labs, for that matter. It's 100% about connections at the top. Admissions is _somewhat_ more meritocratic than Harvard, where >40% of the white students are admitted are ALDC admissions (athletics, donor, legacy, and children of faculty), but the days when MIT was a meritocracy faded in the days of yesteryear. I miss that MIT, but it's dead.