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Identifying and naming doesn’t prevent things, but it makes prevention possible.

by api 3y ago

heyjamesknight 3y ago
Only if we’re actually capable of identifying and naming the right things. Calling everyone a Nazi because you don’t like them doesn’t prevent anything. The modern, cause-effect approach to history is great if you can actually identify all the causes and link them correctly to the proper effects. Medievalists would argue that each situation should be evaluated according to its place in a universal battle of good versus evil. I’m not currently sure which is better.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Took me a minute to catch that by "medievalists" you meant people living in the middle ages and not its contemporary meaning of people who study the middle ages. Anyway though I don't think it's true even adjusting for that. Good vs evil is a model of causes, but not mechanism. Even if you orient in terms of it (which people still do!) you must identify causes and act on them, which also middle ages people did.
  - heyjamesknight 3y ago
    Sure, but you're still using modernist language, which seeks to extract individual events from the larger chain of narrative history.
- gosub100 3y ago
  You don't call someone a nazi because you dislike them, you do it to circumvent having to address the merits of their argument. It's a brilliant tactical ploy: repurpose the atrocities of the holocaust (which thereby cheapens and lessens the event and its victims) to sling at your opponent.
- immibis 3y ago
  Calling everyone who calls someone a Nazi a person who calls everything they don't like a Nazi doesn't prevent anything, either. A lot, but not all, of the people I don't like are Nazis. And I'm uncomfortable saying that because it's unorthodox. And you're comfortable calling me out for saying it because it's unorthodox.
  - heyjamesknight 3y ago
    A lot of the people you don't like are actual Nazis? Like, card-carrying members of the National Socialist party? Or neo-nazi skinheads? Or Illinois nazis blocking the bridge in front of you? Or are you doing the exact thing we're talking about?

Identifying and naming doesn’t prevent things, but it makes prevention possible.

by api 3y ago

Identifying and naming doesn’t prevent things, but it makes prevention possible.

Only if we’re actually capable of identifying and naming the right things. Calling everyone a Nazi because you don’t like them doesn’t prevent anything. The modern, cause-effect approach to history is great if you can actually identify all the causes and link them correctly to the proper effects. Medievalists would argue that each situation should be evaluated according to its place in a universal battle of good versus evil. I’m not currently sure which is better.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
Took me a minute to catch that by "medievalists" you meant people living in the middle ages and not its contemporary meaning of people who study the middle ages. Anyway though I don't think it's true even adjusting for that. Good vs evil is a model of causes, but not mechanism. Even if you orient in terms of it (which people still do!) you must identify causes and act on them, which also middle ages people did.
- heyjamesknight 3y ago
  Sure, but you're still using modernist language, which seeks to extract individual events from the larger chain of narrative history.
gosub100 3y ago
You don't call someone a nazi because you dislike them, you do it to circumvent having to address the merits of their argument. It's a brilliant tactical ploy: repurpose the atrocities of the holocaust (which thereby cheapens and lessens the event and its victims) to sling at your opponent.
immibis 3y ago
Calling everyone who calls someone a Nazi a person who calls everything they don't like a Nazi doesn't prevent anything, either. A lot, but not all, of the people I don't like are Nazis. And I'm uncomfortable saying that because it's unorthodox. And you're comfortable calling me out for saying it because it's unorthodox.
- heyjamesknight 3y ago
  A lot of the people you don't like are actual Nazis? Like, card-carrying members of the National Socialist party? Or neo-nazi skinheads? Or Illinois nazis blocking the bridge in front of you? Or are you doing the exact thing we're talking about?