6 ms·

My product is currently broken and there is nothing I can do about it

azornathogron 3y ago
The problem with a "fast track" option for boosting your priority in the review queue is that obviously everyone will use it all the time, and then it doesn't work. But maybe it could be a "pay $200 for fast track, limit of one use per two months" or something. A rollback facility seems like it should be more possible. Not sure why they don't provide that.
- bluelightning2k 3y ago
  Actually if there's a cost then theoretically the whole process can scale up with the fast-track being dedicated, self-funding additional resource. Purely conceptually if the cost is fully passed on this could scale to any level.
  - Rastonbury 3y ago
    The other solution is to cap fast track capacity or price it higher, so that it's value is roughly aligned to cost. Not super ideal or fair but at least the option is there
- akudha 3y ago
  While boarding a flight last month, I was in the last group because I refuse to pay for the “privilege” of boarding quicker. I was thinking, if everyone on the flight paid that $37 to board quicker, then who gets to board first? This whole thing about “premium” stuff feels ridiculous to me.
  - dudul 3y ago
    Kind of like Disney's priority passes that now everybody has to buy to hope to get on a ride at some point during the day.
bluelightning2k 3y ago
I also have been waiting for a Chrome Store approval the past few days. And also can confirm that updates are usually very fast. One theory - they're A:B testing/training an LLM-based approval process & taking extra time to write extensive feedback/validations for their AI. Or they're between tools. I think it's very likely that LLMs will end up doing this review. (They already likely had an algorithm to detect whether anything meaningfully changed etc for version increments.)
binwiederhier 3y ago
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but if I read this correctly, he says that he pushed out a major v2.0 release with new dependencies just minutes before a launch event that cannot be moved or changed. Even worse, he says that he never ran the prod build, and only in his personal browser. If this is in fact the case, this sounds like a severe lack of testing or foresight.Testing should include prod builds in multiple browsers and operating systems, and it should most certainly be released at least a few days before any launch events, if you depend on a potentially lengthy review process. He didn't even take into account that the original v2.0 review could have also been delayed. Maybe I am severely misinterpreting what happened here (apologies if I did), but to me it sounds like a he is blaming Google's review process when he should be looking at his release and test practices.
- willcipriano 3y ago
  Releasing to big fanfare the instant the product exists is a mistake and a common one. Deploy it and let some friends try it first.
  - binwiederhier 3y ago
    This is the way. What strikes me as odd is that the conversation on Twitter seems to be centered around the Google review not being fast enough, instead of the obvious mistakes with the release timeline and testing. What gets me too is that he doesn't seem to see any fault in his behavior, and only in the review process. In business and in public, be humble and apologize.
    - ozim 3y ago
      Well he makes me feel better about my salary when I tell my boss to slow down and double check things and use proper processes that I work on. For me it goes so well that I double guess if we need to be that careful but better safe than sorry I guess.
  - Oldandwise 3y ago
    That doesn't align with the adage of 'ship every six hours'
ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
>Monday afternoon, 3pm. 1 hour to go until launch (4pm local time). >I receive an email from a customer that mentions Tailscan has not been working for him after the v2.0.0 update that was pushed out just minutes before. Pushing an update an hour before launch was... unwise.
justinclift 3y ago
https://nitter.net/Erwin_AI/status/1724639265592906210 https://nitter.net/Erwin_AI/status/1724639265592906210
wkjagt 3y ago
If the first time you run the production build is after launch, and you only do it because a customer told you it doesn’t work, you just learned a valuable lesson the hard way.
InfamousRece 3y ago
So a completely broken product went through the review without problems. This makes me wonder: what do they actually review? Do they even try to run the thing before approving?
- ryaneager 3y ago
  They’re not QA testers they’re making sure you follow the store guidelines.
mortallywounded 3y ago
Web store submissions don't take one to two hours. I have a popular extension and depending on the changes to your code it can take anywhere from an hour to several days. edit: I avoid environment issues like the one in the twitter thread by making use of a single environment (production == development). The backend "endpoint" is configurable within the extension itself and defaults to production. I can test the production build locally, or point it to the development server.
- blint_carton 3y ago
  Yup exactly this. Unfortunately I learned many years ago when switching from web development to mobile development - I can never depend on a "rollback" of front end code. Apple has "emergency policies" too, but I can't remember a time it actually came in handy. Everything we could think of we added a toggle for. If we weren't sure, it got a toggle - just in case. Also did most of our final testing against "production" builds because that is the exact binary that customers would end up getting.
karmakaze 3y ago
Oh the blindness: > And I sincerely hope that in the future, there will be either a fast-track option for emergencies, a way to rollback to a previous version or really anything that can help prevent a situation like this. Hmm, I wonder what's under my control to prevent such a situation?
- solardev 3y ago
  Ooh I know! Building your phone OS and app store, right? Right?
mvdtnz 3y ago
I simply do not care about the plight of developers who get caught up in Google or Apple store policies. Stop tending other people's gardens.
- Obscurity4340 3y ago
  Whats the best direction for someone who wants to write apps for either given your comment?
  - trevyn 3y ago
    Accept that the only reason you want to write apps for either is to get customers, i.e. approval or money. Become enlightened. Write an app for the craftsmanship, ignore users until one day they magically appear.
    - Obscurity4340 3y ago
      What if I want to write apps for myself that solve random niche issues I run into that would be worth it just for me to learn to resolve and pump out a solution for that so, at the very least, I (capital i) solve one of my own problems (craftmanship?) I feel like we're not saying terribly different things here. That is one of (if not the greatest) motivator. I hate the idea any app fev can shittify their product and take away a foundation you rely on cuz #reasons.
      - jstarfish 3y ago
        > What if I want to write apps for myself that solve random niche issues I run into that would be worth it just for me to learn to resolve and pump out a solution for that so, at the very least, I (capital i) solve one of my own problems (craftmanship?) Write it for literally any other platform. Developing anything inside a walled garden always comes with the risk that you might later end up on the wrong side of that wall.
        Obscurity4340 3y ago
Oldandwise 3y ago
Bit harsh here. It's a css tool, not a core app for a large bank. Erwin gets points from me for being in the arena trying things. Anyway, am I correct in assuming an acceptation server would have prevented his problem?

The problem with a "fast track" option for boosting your priority in the review queue is that obviously everyone will use it all the time, and then it doesn't work. But maybe it could be a "pay $200 for fast track, limit of one use per two months" or something. A rollback facility seems like it should be more possible. Not sure why they don't provide that.

bluelightning2k 3y ago
Actually if there's a cost then theoretically the whole process can scale up with the fast-track being dedicated, self-funding additional resource. Purely conceptually if the cost is fully passed on this could scale to any level.
- Rastonbury 3y ago
  The other solution is to cap fast track capacity or price it higher, so that it's value is roughly aligned to cost. Not super ideal or fair but at least the option is there
akudha 3y ago
While boarding a flight last month, I was in the last group because I refuse to pay for the “privilege” of boarding quicker. I was thinking, if everyone on the flight paid that $37 to board quicker, then who gets to board first? This whole thing about “premium” stuff feels ridiculous to me.
- dudul 3y ago
  Kind of like Disney's priority passes that now everybody has to buy to hope to get on a ride at some point during the day.

bluelightning2k 3y ago

I also have been waiting for a Chrome Store approval the past few days. And also can confirm that updates are usually very fast. One theory - they're A:B testing/training an LLM-based approval process & taking extra time to write extensive feedback/validations for their AI. Or they're between tools. I think it's very likely that LLMs will end up doing this review. (They already likely had an algorithm to detect whether anything meaningfully changed etc for version increments.)

binwiederhier 3y ago

Maybe I am misunderstanding, but if I read this correctly, he says that he pushed out a major v2.0 release with new dependencies just minutes before a launch event that cannot be moved or changed. Even worse, he says that he never ran the prod build, and only in his personal browser. If this is in fact the case, this sounds like a severe lack of testing or foresight.Testing should include prod builds in multiple browsers and operating systems, and it should most certainly be released at least a few days before any launch events, if you depend on a potentially lengthy review process. He didn't even take into account that the original v2.0 review could have also been delayed. Maybe I am severely misinterpreting what happened here (apologies if I did), but to me it sounds like a he is blaming Google's review process when he should be looking at his release and test practices.

willcipriano 3y ago
Releasing to big fanfare the instant the product exists is a mistake and a common one. Deploy it and let some friends try it first.
- binwiederhier 3y ago
  This is the way. What strikes me as odd is that the conversation on Twitter seems to be centered around the Google review not being fast enough, instead of the obvious mistakes with the release timeline and testing. What gets me too is that he doesn't seem to see any fault in his behavior, and only in the review process. In business and in public, be humble and apologize.
  - ozim 3y ago
    Well he makes me feel better about my salary when I tell my boss to slow down and double check things and use proper processes that I work on. For me it goes so well that I double guess if we need to be that careful but better safe than sorry I guess.
- Oldandwise 3y ago
  That doesn't align with the adage of 'ship every six hours'

ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago

>Monday afternoon, 3pm. 1 hour to go until launch (4pm local time). >I receive an email from a customer that mentions Tailscan has not been working for him after the v2.0.0 update that was pushed out just minutes before. Pushing an update an hour before launch was... unwise.

justinclift 3y ago

https://nitter.net/Erwin_AI/status/1724639265592906210 https://nitter.net/Erwin_AI/status/1724639265592906210

wkjagt 3y ago

If the first time you run the production build is after launch, and you only do it because a customer told you it doesn’t work, you just learned a valuable lesson the hard way.

InfamousRece 3y ago

So a completely broken product went through the review without problems. This makes me wonder: what do they actually review? Do they even try to run the thing before approving?

ryaneager 3y ago
They’re not QA testers they’re making sure you follow the store guidelines.

mortallywounded 3y ago

Web store submissions don't take one to two hours. I have a popular extension and depending on the changes to your code it can take anywhere from an hour to several days. edit: I avoid environment issues like the one in the twitter thread by making use of a single environment (production == development). The backend "endpoint" is configurable within the extension itself and defaults to production. I can test the production build locally, or point it to the development server.

blint_carton 3y ago
Yup exactly this. Unfortunately I learned many years ago when switching from web development to mobile development - I can never depend on a "rollback" of front end code. Apple has "emergency policies" too, but I can't remember a time it actually came in handy. Everything we could think of we added a toggle for. If we weren't sure, it got a toggle - just in case. Also did most of our final testing against "production" builds because that is the exact binary that customers would end up getting.

karmakaze 3y ago

Oh the blindness: > And I sincerely hope that in the future, there will be either a fast-track option for emergencies, a way to rollback to a previous version or really anything that can help prevent a situation like this. Hmm, I wonder what's under my control to prevent such a situation?

solardev 3y ago
Ooh I know! Building your phone OS and app store, right? Right?

mvdtnz 3y ago

I simply do not care about the plight of developers who get caught up in Google or Apple store policies. Stop tending other people's gardens.

Obscurity4340 3y ago
Whats the best direction for someone who wants to write apps for either given your comment?
- trevyn 3y ago
  Accept that the only reason you want to write apps for either is to get customers, i.e. approval or money. Become enlightened. Write an app for the craftsmanship, ignore users until one day they magically appear.
  - Obscurity4340 3y ago
    What if I want to write apps for myself that solve random niche issues I run into that would be worth it just for me to learn to resolve and pump out a solution for that so, at the very least, I (capital i) solve one of my own problems (craftmanship?) I feel like we're not saying terribly different things here. That is one of (if not the greatest) motivator. I hate the idea any app fev can shittify their product and take away a foundation you rely on cuz #reasons.
    - jstarfish 3y ago
      > What if I want to write apps for myself that solve random niche issues I run into that would be worth it just for me to learn to resolve and pump out a solution for that so, at the very least, I (capital i) solve one of my own problems (craftmanship?) Write it for literally any other platform. Developing anything inside a walled garden always comes with the risk that you might later end up on the wrong side of that wall.
      - Obscurity4340 3y ago

Oldandwise 3y ago

Bit harsh here. It's a css tool, not a core app for a large bank. Erwin gets points from me for being in the arena trying things. Anyway, am I correct in assuming an acceptation server would have prevented his problem?