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Presumably the primary reason is that PHEVs have much larger batteries and additional charging hardware and thus cost significantly more. And I suspect car man

Presumably the primary reason is that PHEVs have much larger batteries and additional charging hardware and thus cost significantly more. And I suspect car manufacturers have found that car buyers don’t understand the tradeoffs and advantages of PHEVs. If I’m right about that, it really is a shame, because PHEVs really should be an excellent way to fit the vast majority of people’s driving needs and also squeeze out the most electrification per unit of global battery production.

thatfrenchguy 3y ago
PHEV tend to have very small batteries though, 30-40 EPA miles is rarely enough to go to work and back in the US.
- earthscienceman 3y ago
  Sounds like an infrastructure problem if you need to go further than that just for work. But given you're French, vous êtes, selon toute probabilité, complètement d'acc.
- MBCook 3y ago
  A ton of people don’t have access to charging at home due to apartments or condos. Plus if they do it would likely be level 1, which is not exactly speedy. I wouldn’t spring for a level 2 install for a 10-15 kWh battery. I’m not sure PHEVs are the panacea many people seem to think they are. In theory most tris are short and could be covered by the battery. In practice do average owners do that?
  - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
    Level 1 is perfectly fine for a hybrid. It will take ~5 hours to charge, but that's plenty for overnight/at work charging. You don't need 15 minute charging times when you have a 400 mile gas range.
    - el_benhameen 3y ago
      I have a PHEV and love it, but level 1 for a ~14 kWh battery at 120 volts takes more like 12 hours. Level 2 was worth the cost and lets us basically never use gas for most day to day trips.
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  The average US commute is 27 minutes https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2021/acs/acs-47.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2021/acs/acs-47.... which is around 15-20 miles one way. That means at least half of US workers have enough range on a 40 mile battery to do the full commute. More to the point though, even if you have a 40 mile commute, reducing gas consumption in half is still a massive win.
- tshaddox 3y ago
  I haven’t seen detailed data on the distribution of daily mileage in the US, but I’m fairly confident that the average miles driven per day is under 40. A 40 mile range obviously wouldn’t cover everyone’s daily commute, but it certainly wouldn’t be rare. And going 80 miles a day with half of it electric isn’t shabby either.
- phire 3y ago
  Yes, but a normal hybrid only has a single mile of range. Much, much lower capacity than your typical PHEV.
cameldrv 3y ago
I think that a lot of it comes down to marketing position and customer education/segmentation. From a purely technical standpoint, the Prius has a 3.2kWh battery, and the Prius Prime has a 6.8kWh battery. The Prius Prime has a rated range of 44 electric miles, so presumably if you charged the Prius up to the max, it would get 20 miles or so. As an electric vehicle, this is extremely marginal. For people who keep their car in a garage with a power outlet most every night, many people would be able to dramatically reduce their gasoline usage if they started the day with 20 miles of charge. The only problem is that it's not really an EV. The range isn't good enough where it's an EV except for road trips, and I think that on the Prius the gas engine kicks in above a certain speed or if you mash the accelerator, because the electric motor doesn't produce very much power. The result is that if you were to charge it every night, you might reduce your gas consumption by say, 75% or something. Then this leads to a psychological problem, where people want to hold certain values, or not. They don't want to hold a value half way. For example, imagine that you thought that eating meat was murder. Would you then want to cut your meat consumption by 75% and feel good that you had reduced the number of murders you were routinely committing?
- tshaddox 3y ago
  > From a purely technical standpoint, the Prius has a 3.2kWh battery, and the Prius Prime has a 6.8kWh battery. The Prius Prime has a rated range of 44 electric miles, so presumably if you charged the Prius up to the max, it would get 20 miles or so. Is that right? The numbers I’ve seen are that the PHEV has a 13.6 kWh battery and the HEV has a much smaller battery, like less than 1 kWh.
- tzs 3y ago
  Prius Prime will stay in EV mode at speeds up to 84 mph, even if you are smashing the accelerator.

thatfrenchguy 3y ago

PHEV tend to have very small batteries though, 30-40 EPA miles is rarely enough to go to work and back in the US.

earthscienceman 3y ago
Sounds like an infrastructure problem if you need to go further than that just for work. But given you're French, vous êtes, selon toute probabilité, complètement d'acc.
MBCook 3y ago
A ton of people don’t have access to charging at home due to apartments or condos. Plus if they do it would likely be level 1, which is not exactly speedy. I wouldn’t spring for a level 2 install for a 10-15 kWh battery. I’m not sure PHEVs are the panacea many people seem to think they are. In theory most tris are short and could be covered by the battery. In practice do average owners do that?
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  Level 1 is perfectly fine for a hybrid. It will take ~5 hours to charge, but that's plenty for overnight/at work charging. You don't need 15 minute charging times when you have a 400 mile gas range.
  - el_benhameen 3y ago
    I have a PHEV and love it, but level 1 for a ~14 kWh battery at 120 volts takes more like 12 hours. Level 2 was worth the cost and lets us basically never use gas for most day to day trips.
adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
The average US commute is 27 minutes https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2021/acs/acs-47.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2021/acs/acs-47.... which is around 15-20 miles one way. That means at least half of US workers have enough range on a 40 mile battery to do the full commute. More to the point though, even if you have a 40 mile commute, reducing gas consumption in half is still a massive win.
tshaddox 3y ago
I haven’t seen detailed data on the distribution of daily mileage in the US, but I’m fairly confident that the average miles driven per day is under 40. A 40 mile range obviously wouldn’t cover everyone’s daily commute, but it certainly wouldn’t be rare. And going 80 miles a day with half of it electric isn’t shabby either.
phire 3y ago
Yes, but a normal hybrid only has a single mile of range. Much, much lower capacity than your typical PHEV.

cameldrv 3y ago

I think that a lot of it comes down to marketing position and customer education/segmentation. From a purely technical standpoint, the Prius has a 3.2kWh battery, and the Prius Prime has a 6.8kWh battery. The Prius Prime has a rated range of 44 electric miles, so presumably if you charged the Prius up to the max, it would get 20 miles or so. As an electric vehicle, this is extremely marginal. For people who keep their car in a garage with a power outlet most every night, many people would be able to dramatically reduce their gasoline usage if they started the day with 20 miles of charge. The only problem is that it's not really an EV. The range isn't good enough where it's an EV except for road trips, and I think that on the Prius the gas engine kicks in above a certain speed or if you mash the accelerator, because the electric motor doesn't produce very much power. The result is that if you were to charge it every night, you might reduce your gas consumption by say, 75% or something. Then this leads to a psychological problem, where people want to hold certain values, or not. They don't want to hold a value half way. For example, imagine that you thought that eating meat was murder. Would you then want to cut your meat consumption by 75% and feel good that you had reduced the number of murders you were routinely committing?

tshaddox 3y ago
> From a purely technical standpoint, the Prius has a 3.2kWh battery, and the Prius Prime has a 6.8kWh battery. The Prius Prime has a rated range of 44 electric miles, so presumably if you charged the Prius up to the max, it would get 20 miles or so. Is that right? The numbers I’ve seen are that the PHEV has a 13.6 kWh battery and the HEV has a much smaller battery, like less than 1 kWh.
tzs 3y ago
Prius Prime will stay in EV mode at speeds up to 84 mph, even if you are smashing the accelerator.