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This thread (and the accompanying article) are very informative (and damning): https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1641799627128143873?lang=en https://twit

by rgmerk 3y ago

This thread (and the accompanying article) are very informative (and damning): https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1641799627128143873?lang=en https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1641799627128143873?... Drugs and road accidents are other disproportionate contributors to the US's awful life expectancy. At the risk of being a wiseass, at least some of this is Americans taking Ben Franklin's aphorism about liberty and safety far too seriously. Sometimes, trading some liberty for safety is entirely sensible.

nl 3y ago
For those who haven't looked, this analysis is very useful. Almost all the gap is caused by the higher rate of deaths of under 25yos in the US. From [1] the largest differences appears to be: 1) Road deaths 2) Homicide, suicide and gun deaths 3) Drug related deaths. [1] https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1641799922583326720/photo/1 https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1641799922583326720/...
- nl 3y ago
  Actually I've read this the wrong way around. The biggest difference is actually cardio-matabolic diseases!
nradov 3y ago
"For Americans age 18-45, the leading cause of death is fentanyl overdose." https://www.getsmartaboutdrugs.gov/media/dea-administrator-record-fentanyl-overdose-deaths https://www.getsmartaboutdrugs.gov/media/dea-administrator-r... That is a sad situation, but giving up more liberty won't save those people. Freedom is more important than safety and I have no interest in living under an authoritarian police state.
- rgmerk 3y ago
  Agreed on fentanyl, but there are other areas where nanny-stating saves lives. The evidence on higher tobacco and alcohol taxes, for instance, is pretty irrefutable. Or, moving up the implausibility scale in the American context, drastic reductions in the availability of handguns including the mass forfeiture of existing weapons (which has been done in a number of other developed countries). You may not like any of these, particularly the last, but the fact is that they would increase life expectancy significantly.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  It's always interesting to me when people bring up Franklin in this context because the aphorism is usually completely misunderstood. The audience and context was the colony of Pennsylvania deciding to accept an offer from the Penn family to provide a one-off detachment of mercenaries to patrol the colony's western border in exchange for a perpetual ban on taxing the Penn landholdings. The safety was border defense. The liberty was the colonial government's authority to pass law. In context, Franklin is saying "The government that cedes its taxation authority over the citizens for a temporary boon from its richest citizens deserves neither the boon nor the authority."
  - rgmerk 3y ago
    Thank you, that is fascinating!

by rgmerk 3y ago

nl 3y ago

For those who haven't looked, this analysis is very useful. Almost all the gap is caused by the higher rate of deaths of under 25yos in the US. From [1] the largest differences appears to be: 1) Road deaths 2) Homicide, suicide and gun deaths 3) Drug related deaths. [1] https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1641799922583326720/photo/1 https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1641799922583326720/...

nl 3y ago
Actually I've read this the wrong way around. The biggest difference is actually cardio-matabolic diseases!

nradov 3y ago

"For Americans age 18-45, the leading cause of death is fentanyl overdose." https://www.getsmartaboutdrugs.gov/media/dea-administrator-record-fentanyl-overdose-deaths https://www.getsmartaboutdrugs.gov/media/dea-administrator-r... That is a sad situation, but giving up more liberty won't save those people. Freedom is more important than safety and I have no interest in living under an authoritarian police state.

rgmerk 3y ago
Agreed on fentanyl, but there are other areas where nanny-stating saves lives. The evidence on higher tobacco and alcohol taxes, for instance, is pretty irrefutable. Or, moving up the implausibility scale in the American context, drastic reductions in the availability of handguns including the mass forfeiture of existing weapons (which has been done in a number of other developed countries). You may not like any of these, particularly the last, but the fact is that they would increase life expectancy significantly.
shadowgovt 3y ago
It's always interesting to me when people bring up Franklin in this context because the aphorism is usually completely misunderstood. The audience and context was the colony of Pennsylvania deciding to accept an offer from the Penn family to provide a one-off detachment of mercenaries to patrol the colony's western border in exchange for a perpetual ban on taxing the Penn landholdings. The safety was border defense. The liberty was the colonial government's authority to pass law. In context, Franklin is saying "The government that cedes its taxation authority over the citizens for a temporary boon from its richest citizens deserves neither the boon nor the authority."
- rgmerk 3y ago
  Thank you, that is fascinating!