3 ms·

Is part of the reason that there are a lot of younger men dying at much younger ages which skews the life expectancy? Or do they exclude outliers when they ar

Is part of the reason that there are a lot of younger men dying at much younger ages which skews the life expectancy? Or do they exclude outliers when they are putting the numbers together?

rgmerk 3y ago
In short, yes. See the link in my earlier comment.
jandrewrogers 3y ago
It is a statistical artifact of many more Americans dying due to fatal injuries at a young age. If you remove the fatal injuries, Americans are pretty long-lived despite their poor lifestyles.
- defrost 3y ago
  Any particular reason US citizens are having so many fatal injuries at a young age though? Is the accident rate higher than (say) Canada and Australia, or is the prognosis for recovery after an injury so much worse? Here in Australia in my youth we jumped out of aircraft and helicopters, from one moving vehicle into another on dirt roads, jumped 40 ft off of deep water jetties into shark infested waters, climbed into crushers on mine sites to unbog them, washed live HV power lines in faraday suits risking jump over, played with snakes, ... all the fun stuff and despite that my generation has 10 years greater life expectancy from birth than my US cohort generation.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - maartenscholl 3y ago
    Firearms are the leading cause of death for children in the US. That is not the case in other wealthy countries. According to this article https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/ https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/child-a...
    - pseudo0 3y ago
      Fentanyl makes a much larger impact. There were around 14,000 non-suicide firearm deaths in 2018, the most recent year with stats. Fentanyl killed around 110,000 in 2022. Both issues disproportionately affect small segments of the population though, rather than being general hazards. Driving deaths for example tend to be more evenly distributed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_S... https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176830906/overdose-death-2022-record https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176830906/overdose-death-202...
      - maartenscholl 3y ago
        I think we get an apparent contradiction because of how we stratify the data. According to the CDC/KFF study, firearms are still the leading cause of death for people age 1-19, and substance use is only 6th in the list for that age group. If you instead interpret "young age" as another age range, then indeed other causes of death may appear more prevalent.
    - nradov 3y ago
      Some of their metrics include adults ages 18-19, not just children. Still a serious problem, but the headline is deceptive.
      - maartenscholl 3y ago
        How is the headline deceptive? If you can trust the source, the statistic holds for individuals aged 1-17, as is written in the first sentence: "In 2020 and 2021, firearms contributed to the deaths of more children ages 1-17 years in the U.S. than any other type of injury or illness"
  - jandrewrogers 3y ago
    One of the largest outliers is vehicular accidents. Americans drive from an early age and drive a lot of miles. There are a bunch of historical and cultural reasons for this mostly related to agriculture, but you could get permits at age 14 and I seem to recall people driving as young as 12 in restricted agricultural contexts when I was growing up. Most start at 15-16. They also tend to do stupid things in cars when young (because young). Multiple people I knew as a child living in agricultural country died very young in vehicular accidents. I don’t know how much of this is relevant in 2023. I suspect driving is more restricted than when I was a child. The other major factor is the crime gang warfare that tends to kill a lot of young men. Most Americans will never intersect this subset of the population but it is a major source of skew in longevity statistics. For better or worse, if you survive into your mid-30s, Americans have a long life expectancy. There are significant sub-populations for who those early years are significant filters.
    - defrost 3y ago
      > One of the largest outliers is vehicular accidents. Americans drive from an early age and drive a lot of miles. Australia is kind of big and kind of sparse (check map) and has cars; I live in a state 3x larger than Texas and drove 40 km to high school 5 days a week (and back again in the afternoon), and travelled > 1,000 km to reach the nearest university. It's true that USofA citizens have more fatalities per driver mile which does prompt a 'why?' - poor signage, no seatbelts, chronic attention deficit ?? Indigenous Australians haver lower life expectancy and higher fatalities at younger ages.
      - timeon 3y ago
        I think in US you do not need to attend driving school in order to get license. Is it same for Australia?
        defrost 3y ago
        Yes. Australia requires you to take a driving test - a "written" largely multi choice test to demonstrate understanding of road rules, success there gives you [L] learner plates that allow you to drive under supervision and practice. You then have to pass a practical driving test to gain [P] probationary plates for unassisted driving with some restrictions - after a year or so you're a full driver. No driving school is required - but it can help if you don't have access to a cool calm collected experienced driver who can walk you the skills test - reversing, parallel park, correct signalling, emergency stop, etc.

Is part of the reason that there are a lot of younger men dying at much younger ages which skews the life expectancy? Or do they exclude outliers when they are putting the numbers together?

rgmerk 3y ago

In short, yes. See the link in my earlier comment.

jandrewrogers 3y ago

It is a statistical artifact of many more Americans dying due to fatal injuries at a young age. If you remove the fatal injuries, Americans are pretty long-lived despite their poor lifestyles.

defrost 3y ago
Any particular reason US citizens are having so many fatal injuries at a young age though? Is the accident rate higher than (say) Canada and Australia, or is the prognosis for recovery after an injury so much worse? Here in Australia in my youth we jumped out of aircraft and helicopters, from one moving vehicle into another on dirt roads, jumped 40 ft off of deep water jetties into shark infested waters, climbed into crushers on mine sites to unbog them, washed live HV power lines in faraday suits risking jump over, played with snakes, ... all the fun stuff and despite that my generation has 10 years greater life expectancy from birth than my US cohort generation.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- maartenscholl 3y ago
  Firearms are the leading cause of death for children in the US. That is not the case in other wealthy countries. According to this article https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/ https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/child-a...
  - pseudo0 3y ago
    Fentanyl makes a much larger impact. There were around 14,000 non-suicide firearm deaths in 2018, the most recent year with stats. Fentanyl killed around 110,000 in 2022. Both issues disproportionately affect small segments of the population though, rather than being general hazards. Driving deaths for example tend to be more evenly distributed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_S... https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176830906/overdose-death-2022-record https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176830906/overdose-death-202...
    - maartenscholl 3y ago
      I think we get an apparent contradiction because of how we stratify the data. According to the CDC/KFF study, firearms are still the leading cause of death for people age 1-19, and substance use is only 6th in the list for that age group. If you instead interpret "young age" as another age range, then indeed other causes of death may appear more prevalent.
  - nradov 3y ago
    Some of their metrics include adults ages 18-19, not just children. Still a serious problem, but the headline is deceptive.
    - maartenscholl 3y ago
      How is the headline deceptive? If you can trust the source, the statistic holds for individuals aged 1-17, as is written in the first sentence: "In 2020 and 2021, firearms contributed to the deaths of more children ages 1-17 years in the U.S. than any other type of injury or illness"
- jandrewrogers 3y ago
  One of the largest outliers is vehicular accidents. Americans drive from an early age and drive a lot of miles. There are a bunch of historical and cultural reasons for this mostly related to agriculture, but you could get permits at age 14 and I seem to recall people driving as young as 12 in restricted agricultural contexts when I was growing up. Most start at 15-16. They also tend to do stupid things in cars when young (because young). Multiple people I knew as a child living in agricultural country died very young in vehicular accidents. I don’t know how much of this is relevant in 2023. I suspect driving is more restricted than when I was a child. The other major factor is the crime gang warfare that tends to kill a lot of young men. Most Americans will never intersect this subset of the population but it is a major source of skew in longevity statistics. For better or worse, if you survive into your mid-30s, Americans have a long life expectancy. There are significant sub-populations for who those early years are significant filters.
  - defrost 3y ago
    > One of the largest outliers is vehicular accidents. Americans drive from an early age and drive a lot of miles. Australia is kind of big and kind of sparse (check map) and has cars; I live in a state 3x larger than Texas and drove 40 km to high school 5 days a week (and back again in the afternoon), and travelled > 1,000 km to reach the nearest university. It's true that USofA citizens have more fatalities per driver mile which does prompt a 'why?' - poor signage, no seatbelts, chronic attention deficit ?? Indigenous Australians haver lower life expectancy and higher fatalities at younger ages.
    - timeon 3y ago
      I think in US you do not need to attend driving school in order to get license. Is it same for Australia?
      - defrost 3y ago
        Yes. Australia requires you to take a driving test - a "written" largely multi choice test to demonstrate understanding of road rules, success there gives you [L] learner plates that allow you to drive under supervision and practice. You then have to pass a practical driving test to gain [P] probationary plates for unassisted driving with some restrictions - after a year or so you're a full driver. No driving school is required - but it can help if you don't have access to a cool calm collected experienced driver who can walk you the skills test - reversing, parallel park, correct signalling, emergency stop, etc.