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How Caterpillars Gruesomely Transform into Butterflies
- chpatrick 3y agoIt's almost like they turn back into eggs.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- gus_massa 3y agoDo they keep their digestive tube? It's a very important part during the development of the embryo and I guess it's difficult to throw away and make a new one. Nerves? Eyes?
- beowulfey 3y agoThe very interesting thing is that the catapillar’s experiences, on some level, are maintained into the butterfly stage—despite so much of the larva being dissolved! https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13412-butterflies-remember-caterpillar-experiences/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13412-butterflies-rem...
- mannyv 3y agoThere is no brain, yet the memories persist. Where are the memories if there is no brain?
- Khelavaster 3y agoIt's not technically "learning", it's cellular adaptation.
- 4gotunameagain 3y agoFrom what I gather, it is not known yet if the brain turns completely into soup. The micro CT scan of the pupa quoted in the article is not capable of imaging neuronal cells
- stevenwoo 3y agoThe details of this type of study (last time this was posted) state that certain caterpillar neurons must exist at a certain state of development, if the caterpillars are taught the aversion behavior too soon, the butterflies never retain the behavior so this is how they know that detail. Then only a percentage (IIRC < 70 percent) of the butterflies remember the behavior they learned as caterpillars. Here was a followup direct to a study with details and moths. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0001736 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
- atleastoptimal 3y agoBiology is 24th century chemical nanotechnology developed by a billion years of fortunate accidents
- boringg 3y agoWe will not be around long enough to compete with biology. It's unbelievable what it has managed to do on this planet when you look at it through all the transformations.
- 4death4 3y agoWe are biology. If you think about biology as an exponentially improving process over billions of years, then our intelligence is simply an extension of the process and the things we do to it are feeding the exponential cycle of "improvement".
- maxerickson 3y agoThe process of evolution appears to be barely changing, not exponentially improving. Biological systems adapt to their present environment so don't really improve on some sort of continuous abstracted measure, and then we aren't sure but see some evidence of very rapid changes to match large shifts in the environment, followed by periods that are more or less directionless.
- Terr_ 3y agoI prefer to think of it as the era after after a gray goo apocalypse engulfed the planet, ruthlessly driven towards colossal colonies of trillions, erecting sprawling--even mobile--megastructures and hiveminds.
- taneq 3y agoEver since I played Spaceplan (http://www.jhollands.co.uk/spaceplan/ http://www.jhollands.co.uk/spaceplan/ and aaahhhh dammit I guess I'm doing another playthrough) I've mentally used 'value drift' to refer to any number of things, from the kids not wanting to do what we tell them to Windows 11 rebooting itself because its updates are more important than my unsaved code. (Kidding, I spam ctrl+s while I'm thinking out of habit, nothing is ever unsaved for long. :P )
- huytersd 3y agoWhy would a creature even evolve into a process this convoluted? It’s so complex that it becomes silly.
- ithkuil 3y agoOne possible explaination (I heard of. Not sure how mainstream an explanation is) is that insect metamorphosis is the result of two species fusing together in a kind of chimera. One "piggybacking" on the other and gradually each phase specializing EDIT: An article that contains some more pointers (research papers etc) on the idea: https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2012/08/01/157718428/are-butterflies-two-different-animals-in-one-the-death-and-resurrection-theory https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2012/08/01/157718428/a...
- andsoitis 3y agoRelevant reading: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982219313156 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096098221...
- jonhohle 3y agoMonarchs go one step further in that there are 3-5 generations that have effectively distinct migratory and reproductive patterns. One generation migrates north from Mexico to the northern US, 1-3 continue north, and the final one flies back to effectively the same place in Mexico.
- chongli 3y agoThe two main mobile forms are highly optimized for different tasks: the caterpillar for eating and storing energy, the butterfly for moving long distances and mating. It’s so elegant and really quite a marvel of evolution. The problem it solves is that the butterfly’s wings are so big they take a vast amount of material and energy to grow. If you imagine an alternate reality where butterflies hatch fully formed from tiny eggs and begin to fly around right away, you begin to see the problem: those winged creatures could never eat enough material to grow the huge wings of an adult butterfly. The caterpillar solves this problem neatly by shedding the wings and just focusing on eating in order to store as much energy as possible. If you think about it, the butterfly is really just an animal that copies the (spatial) lifecycle of wind-dispersed plants. The imago phase (adult butterfly) follows the mobile seeds of a dandelion or maple tree. The caterpillar in turn stays with the rooted plant and feasts on it for material and energy. Butterflies are themselves pollinators of plants which illustrates how valuable a role dispersal is.
- teleforce 3y agoFun facts, if you help a butterfly escape from its cocoon unnaturally the butterfly will probably die soon after.
- doublerabbit 3y agoIt feels as if we should be able to achieve the same result, however got cancelled after them finding out how maniac of an invention the human was.
- bitwize 3y agoPrime opportunity for humans to drastically transform into something else... like a Pak Protector.
- dotnet00 3y agoI wonder if they can feel something akin to pain. It'd probably be excruciatingly painful to be able to feel your body dissolving, at least until the related neurons are dissolved.
- rybosworld 3y agoNot in the way we experience it - their nervous systems are much simpler than a mammals. The experience of pain is thought to be related to how complex the brain/nervous system of the animal is. Many animals will respond to being poked/prodded but the response is more of an involuntary reflex than anything else - this is called nociception. There's no conscience "experience" here. Mammals also experience nociception, but the associated "anguish" is not believed to be prevalent in most animals. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6790384/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6790384/ Basically: The mammalian experience of pain is thought to be somewhat unique. There's always exceptions of course (Octopus are thought to have complex pain experience).
- jackcosgrove 3y agoThis adds a lot of color to all those metaphors about turning into a beautiful butterfly.
- K0balt 3y agoHas anyone studied to see if memories are conserved through the metamorphic process?