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> stop thinking that governments can solve problems In a functional democracy, with rule of law and strong civic institutions, governments is exactly how we so

> stop thinking that governments can solve problems In a functional democracy, with rule of law and strong civic institutions, governments is exactly how we solve problems. The more effective the government, the less problems. Compare Europe with the US on policing, food, access to justice, tax filing, banking, fraud prevention, environmental protections, life expectancy, obesity, systems of measurement, public transport, democratic accountability, protection of the elderly, feeding children (I could go on). The US still wrestles with problems that Europe (and much of the rest of the world) has forgotten about - and it does that because it confuses 'freedom' with lack of effective central government.

pdonis 3y ago
> In a functional democracy, with rule of law and strong civic institutions, governments is exactly how we solve problems. Some problems, perhaps. But not all problems. In the US, the government is supposed to be restricted to a certain set of functions that are explicitly delegated to it in the Constitution. It is not supposed to solve everything that anyone thinks is a problem. Of course, the actual practice in the US has diverged greatly from this, but that is a bug, not a feature. > Compare Europe with the US I have no problem with Europe having different policies on this from the US. If Europe wants to have government solve many more problems, that's up to Europe. And people who want to live under that model of government should live in Europe. The US was supposed to be built on a different model of government, for people who want to live under a different model of government from Europe. > The US still wrestles with problems that Europe (and much of the rest of the world) has forgotten about - and it does that because it confuses 'freedom' with lack of effective central government. No, the US wrestles with these problems because we prefer to wrestle with them instead of sweeping them under the rug and hoping that "government" will somehow solve them without we the people having to get involved. I don't share your rosy view of how well Europe has actually solved the problems, but I don't live in Europe so I am not personally affected. And conversely, those who don't live in the US should not presume to tell me how well the US is doing. I live here and I can judge that for myself.
- Alpha3031 3y ago
  > No, the US wrestles with these problems because we prefer to wrestle with them instead of sweeping them under the rug and hoping that "government" will somehow solve them without we the people having to get involved. There's this fascinating concept called res publica that means that the public (you, the people) are supposed to do this "government" thing. I've been told you've actually got some of it in the US. Of course, it's entirely possible that what you have is so dysfunctional that the demos have entirely given up their right and responsibility in running the place, but I don't think that's actually true. While you'll always have a special place in my heart for beta testing the modern version, some of you haven't let that develop into a chauvinism that prevents one from seeing good things elsewhere that might be applicable at home (or for that matter, good things at home which might be applicable elsewhere, because home is completely and utterly incomparable in every way, and one needs not ever even bother finding out) and that's certainly better governance than trying the same thing over and over again, and somehow expecting better results.
- somewhereoutth 3y ago
  I have lived in both places (UK/US/EU). I didn't realize how many problems could even exist before I went to the US! A trivial example: Forgetting your card in the ATM - in Europe you have to take your card before you get your cash, so you can't forget it. A very simple UX tweak that solves the problem, that is mandated across all ATMs. Yes a trivial problem, but emblematic of the two different approaches.
- staticman2 3y ago
  The word "supposed" is doing a lot of work in that post. You can argue anything with the word "supposed" I guess? The voters are "supposed" to vote for elected officials who support policies and programs that will improve their lives? People are "supposed" to find rolemodels who aren't ancient slaveholders? The constitution is "supposed" to be a living document? The federal government is "supposed" to provide for the common good?

pdonis 3y ago

> In a functional democracy, with rule of law and strong civic institutions, governments is exactly how we solve problems. Some problems, perhaps. But not all problems. In the US, the government is supposed to be restricted to a certain set of functions that are explicitly delegated to it in the Constitution. It is not supposed to solve everything that anyone thinks is a problem. Of course, the actual practice in the US has diverged greatly from this, but that is a bug, not a feature. > Compare Europe with the US I have no problem with Europe having different policies on this from the US. If Europe wants to have government solve many more problems, that's up to Europe. And people who want to live under that model of government should live in Europe. The US was supposed to be built on a different model of government, for people who want to live under a different model of government from Europe. > The US still wrestles with problems that Europe (and much of the rest of the world) has forgotten about - and it does that because it confuses 'freedom' with lack of effective central government. No, the US wrestles with these problems because we prefer to wrestle with them instead of sweeping them under the rug and hoping that "government" will somehow solve them without we the people having to get involved. I don't share your rosy view of how well Europe has actually solved the problems, but I don't live in Europe so I am not personally affected. And conversely, those who don't live in the US should not presume to tell me how well the US is doing. I live here and I can judge that for myself.

Alpha3031 3y ago
> No, the US wrestles with these problems because we prefer to wrestle with them instead of sweeping them under the rug and hoping that "government" will somehow solve them without we the people having to get involved. There's this fascinating concept called res publica that means that the public (you, the people) are supposed to do this "government" thing. I've been told you've actually got some of it in the US. Of course, it's entirely possible that what you have is so dysfunctional that the demos have entirely given up their right and responsibility in running the place, but I don't think that's actually true. While you'll always have a special place in my heart for beta testing the modern version, some of you haven't let that develop into a chauvinism that prevents one from seeing good things elsewhere that might be applicable at home (or for that matter, good things at home which might be applicable elsewhere, because home is completely and utterly incomparable in every way, and one needs not ever even bother finding out) and that's certainly better governance than trying the same thing over and over again, and somehow expecting better results.
somewhereoutth 3y ago
I have lived in both places (UK/US/EU). I didn't realize how many problems could even exist before I went to the US! A trivial example: Forgetting your card in the ATM - in Europe you have to take your card before you get your cash, so you can't forget it. A very simple UX tweak that solves the problem, that is mandated across all ATMs. Yes a trivial problem, but emblematic of the two different approaches.
staticman2 3y ago
The word "supposed" is doing a lot of work in that post. You can argue anything with the word "supposed" I guess? The voters are "supposed" to vote for elected officials who support policies and programs that will improve their lives? People are "supposed" to find rolemodels who aren't ancient slaveholders? The constitution is "supposed" to be a living document? The federal government is "supposed" to provide for the common good?