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Wonder if this will once again ignite talks about the Nicaragua canal. My understanding is that it has lots of potential negative environmental impacts but both
by Mountain_Skies 3y ago
Wonder if this will once again ignite talks about the Nicaragua canal. My understanding is that it has lots of potential negative environmental impacts but both the current value of the Panama Canal and its likelihood of getting even more congested almost seems to make another canal somewhere in the region inevitable.
- mc32 3y agoWhy couldn’t Panama trench another “parallel” canal? That way they have two canals for dedicated directionality.
- cobbal 3y agoIf the limiting factor is rainwater into the central lake, draining the lake in two different paths won't help anything.
- mc32 3y agoIs there an issue with using oceanic water other than not anticipating the need? They may have retrofit some of the pump systems but doable?
- hexator 3y agoI imagine that wouldn't be great for the ecosystem of the interior, which is a freshwater habitat...
- mc32 3y agoBut it’s an artificial lake that didn’t exist before?
- kimixa 3y agoAn artificial lake created over a hundred years ago now, with it's own ecosystem that has developed around it. And rivers still flow from that downstream, likely entering the water table of a much larger area than the lake itself. Despite it being "artificial", the water still passes through it to downstream ecosystems, as it did before any dam construction. While they may be lower volume due to the drought and limited releases from the lake, replacing that with "Salt water or nothing" would still be a massive change.
- fencepost 3y agoAn artificial lake created in part by damming a river system. If you don't think that would have much impact, start advocating to alleviate western US water concerns by pumping from the Great Lakes and reversing the course of the St Lawrence River to flow from the Atlantic into the lakes. I'm sure people will be very receptive.
- DiggyJohnson 3y agoIt's an artificial lake that provides much of Panama's fresh drinking water, apart from supporting the locks.
- thehappypm 3y agoIt would take a lot of energy to pump seawater uphill like that.
- whyenot 3y agoThe canal also supplies drinking water for Panama's second largest city (Colon), as well as several smaller municipalities. On top of that, replacing the freshwater would kill many of the plants and animals living in and around Gatun Lake. It would be a disaster.
- ta1243 3y agoHow much to pump the water back (either fresh water from the bottom lock or replace the whole flight with salt)? 200,000 tons of water per ship, 26 metres above sea level, about 200MWh, so call it 500MWh. With 20,000 ships a year that's 50 a day, or 25GWh. A 2GW solar plant A large solar farm would can reach that capacity (you don't need to run the pumps 24/7, so Solar is perfect)
- jodrellblank 3y agoA quick google shows 1GW ~= $1Bn. How much more to desalinate the water?
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- lostapathy 3y agoLots of replies to this comment, but they all miss a critical detail: the Panama Canal isn't just a "man made river" at sea level, it's a series of locks that raise and lower the ships between the oceans, with stops at a few lakes along the way. Ecology problems aside, you need water at the higher elevations to operate the locks, and the lacks have to retain enough water to remain navigable. It's not practical to pump that much water up hill, so we're at nature's mercy for the water supply. If there isn't enough water in the system to operating the existing locks, there's no point adding a parallel set to draw from the same limited water supply.
- supertrope 3y agoThousands of people died in the construction of the Panama Canal.
- hef19898 3y agoShouldn't be an issue as soon as the first longtermerism SV VC tech bro billionaire develops a taste for large, terrestrial infrastructure.
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- klyrs 3y agoI've long pictured a rail canal, wherein loaded boats enter a drydock carriage, which whisks them over land to the other side. In my head, this works like a ski lift with two parallel tracks running side by side. Alas, I am a lowly software engineer and the sheer scale of the ships involved is entirely out of my experience.
- gizajob 3y agoCheck out the movie “Fitzcarraldo” by Werner Hertzog!
- klyrs 3y agoYou've hit the nail on the head, that's about my expectation for how my large-scale civil engineering ideas would go in real life. Even making the movie was a shitshow.
- pests 3y agoModern super container ships can hold 24,000 containers each of which is 20ft long. If you were to line these up end to end it would be 96 miles long. The Panama Canal is only 50 miles long. You could do it but the entire length of the track would be completely full of containers twice over. I somehow feel it would not be cost effective in the long run.
- oh_sigh 3y agoOP is talking about loading the entire boat onto rails, not the containers themselves.
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- hef19898 3y agoContainer on rails is a viable alternative for goods shipped from and to China. Used pretty extensively, but more expensive than sea freight (which is basically unbeatable cost wise).
- foobarian 3y agoI wonder what the costs/issues would be with simply excavating a horizontal canal connecting the two oceans directly. It doesn't seem an impossible distance.
- wlll 3y agoContaminating of the two ecosystems would be a pretty big one. The panama canal has the advantage of being fed by rainwater from the middle flowing outwards, so keeps the two oceans /somewhat/ separate.
- xeromal 3y agoConnecting the two oceans would probably do a thing that could never be undid.