5 ms·

Is this surprising? This is the direct result of raising minimum wage. After few years, the spending power will be decreased again and it will need to be rais

Is this surprising? This is the direct result of raising minimum wage. After few years, the spending power will be decreased again and it will need to be raised again. Workers shouldn't be demanding a minimum wage increase. They should be looking for ways to increase their value to businesses, which will always increase their wages, regardless of government intervention.

foxyv 3y ago
I used to believe the wage price spiral when I was a teenager. As I grew up and lived through the 2008 financial crisis, I realized that increasing wages were only a fraction of the problem compared to the monstrous amounts of wet ink money being piped into investment firms and banks. Now we are seeing monopolistic practices driving prices of basic needs to the moon and then blaming it on workers wanting to make enough to barely live? I'm not buying it.
randomjoe2 3y ago
This is such a naive view of the situation. It's so easy to blame minimum wage workers for all the issues when really it's corporate greed eating into the economy
toomuchtodo 3y ago
> Workers shouldn't be demanding a minimum wage increase. They should be looking for ways to increase their value to businesses, which will always increase their wages, regardless of government intervention. Nah. The minimum wage is "we would pay you less if we could, but we cannot." The business will extract as much as possible regardless of the value workers deliver. They are not going to magically pay you more because you are more efficient or deliver more value, but you might get a pizza party. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MCD/mcdonalds/gross-profit https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MCD/mcdonalds/gros... > McDonald's gross profit for the twelve months ending June 30, 2023 was $13.900B, a 6.55% increase year-over-year. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/CMG/chipotle-mexican-grill/gross-profit https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/CMG/chipotle-mexic... > Chipotle Mexican Grill gross profit for the twelve months ending June 30, 2023 was $2.383B, a 30.05% increase year-over-year. Shareholders and management will need to make peace with lower go forward returns and comp, respectively. Workers deserve a living wage and are enabled to get it in the current macro (structural demographics and executive branch posture, NLRB specifically). Robust labor policy and labor organizing is the only antidote for corporate sociopathy. > A Special Report on Greedflation: How Corporations Are Making Record Profits On The Backs of American Families https://www.casey.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/greedflation1.pdf https://www.casey.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/greedflation1.pdf
- mortify 3y ago
  >The minimum wage is "we would pay you less if we could, but we cannot." That is what what the minimum wage is, but I'm not sure that's indicative of a flaw. We are all seeking the most value for our money. E.g. I need some repairs done to my roof. One company quoted me $1,800 and another $4,200. Considering I had a recommendation for the first company, I went with them. That is something we all do, and it isn't indicative of sociopathy. If the second company was offering more value (better matching roof shingles, a much shorter time to start, etc) then it might be worth more money. Otherwise, like fast food workers, they're generally interchangeable and by saving money I can choose to spend it on something else of value.
mplewis 3y ago
This is empirically incorrect.
- redwall_hp 3y ago
  It even violates basic causality: price increases lead minimum wage increases by a wide margin, as they're (at best) a CoL adjustment. Though the reality is even with minimum wage increases, the relative spending power of the minimum wage is in the toilet compared to past decades.
vannevar 3y ago
Even if you assume that the value of fast food workers has not increased but has remained flat, the Federal minimum wage has declined over time in real dollars. So this is just an overdue correction. The companies chose to raise prices rather than reduce executive compensation (which has soared in recent decades), despite the lack of any evidence that executive value to the business has actually increased. It makes more sense economically to attribute the price increase to the rise in executive pay than it does to blame the minimum wage.
PM_me_your_math 3y ago
[dead]
jncfhnb 3y ago
The ability of automation to drive the worker contributions lower and lower will far outpace the workers “hustle” in this regard
mint2 3y ago
Worker productivity versus wage graphs show that false.
martin8412 3y ago
This is simply the result of greed from the owners. McDonald's in Denmark has had lower/same prices as the US depending on currency exchange rate while giving full benefits and higher salaries to their workers. McDonald's Denmark is rated among the best places to work. The difference is that the franchise taker doesn't get to underpay workers to prop up their own compensation. If they want higher compensation, they'll have to work for it and expand.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  I ate McDonald's in Aarhus once (2006) and remember it being even more expensive than Switzerland, where I was living at the time. These days, big macs are expensive in the USA (we paid $6.50 in Seattle yesterday for just one big mac), I'm pretty sure that is competitive Denmark today, right?
  - martin8412 3y ago
    A Big Mac in Denmark as of July 2023 costs 38DKK, which with today's currency conversion rate comes to $5.46. DKK is pegged to EUR, so the conversation rate follows the EUR to USD fluctuations.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Ya, I think the Euro was much more dear in 2006 compared to the Swiss Franc. Now it is very much the opposite.
jakobson14 3y ago
This guy has Stockholm syndrome. Doesn't matter how much value you generate for The Company. They're perfectly happy to take it from you for free if they can get away with it. Without bargaining power and leverage, either through unions or scarcity of labour, there's no natural limit to how little a company will pay it's employees. Used to be that knowledge workers were scarce, now everyone is getting degrees. The scarcity of the engineering labour pool that meant people could get good jobs without a union is gone. If you want a good job, get a union.

foxyv 3y ago

I used to believe the wage price spiral when I was a teenager. As I grew up and lived through the 2008 financial crisis, I realized that increasing wages were only a fraction of the problem compared to the monstrous amounts of wet ink money being piped into investment firms and banks. Now we are seeing monopolistic practices driving prices of basic needs to the moon and then blaming it on workers wanting to make enough to barely live? I'm not buying it.

randomjoe2 3y ago

This is such a naive view of the situation. It's so easy to blame minimum wage workers for all the issues when really it's corporate greed eating into the economy

toomuchtodo 3y ago

> Workers shouldn't be demanding a minimum wage increase. They should be looking for ways to increase their value to businesses, which will always increase their wages, regardless of government intervention. Nah. The minimum wage is "we would pay you less if we could, but we cannot." The business will extract as much as possible regardless of the value workers deliver. They are not going to magically pay you more because you are more efficient or deliver more value, but you might get a pizza party. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MCD/mcdonalds/gross-profit https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MCD/mcdonalds/gros... > McDonald's gross profit for the twelve months ending June 30, 2023 was $13.900B, a 6.55% increase year-over-year. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/CMG/chipotle-mexican-grill/gross-profit https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/CMG/chipotle-mexic... > Chipotle Mexican Grill gross profit for the twelve months ending June 30, 2023 was $2.383B, a 30.05% increase year-over-year. Shareholders and management will need to make peace with lower go forward returns and comp, respectively. Workers deserve a living wage and are enabled to get it in the current macro (structural demographics and executive branch posture, NLRB specifically). Robust labor policy and labor organizing is the only antidote for corporate sociopathy. > A Special Report on Greedflation: How Corporations Are Making Record Profits On The Backs of American Families https://www.casey.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/greedflation1.pdf https://www.casey.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/greedflation1.pdf

mortify 3y ago
>The minimum wage is "we would pay you less if we could, but we cannot." That is what what the minimum wage is, but I'm not sure that's indicative of a flaw. We are all seeking the most value for our money. E.g. I need some repairs done to my roof. One company quoted me $1,800 and another $4,200. Considering I had a recommendation for the first company, I went with them. That is something we all do, and it isn't indicative of sociopathy. If the second company was offering more value (better matching roof shingles, a much shorter time to start, etc) then it might be worth more money. Otherwise, like fast food workers, they're generally interchangeable and by saving money I can choose to spend it on something else of value.

mplewis 3y ago

This is empirically incorrect.

redwall_hp 3y ago
It even violates basic causality: price increases lead minimum wage increases by a wide margin, as they're (at best) a CoL adjustment. Though the reality is even with minimum wage increases, the relative spending power of the minimum wage is in the toilet compared to past decades.

vannevar 3y ago

Even if you assume that the value of fast food workers has not increased but has remained flat, the Federal minimum wage has declined over time in real dollars. So this is just an overdue correction. The companies chose to raise prices rather than reduce executive compensation (which has soared in recent decades), despite the lack of any evidence that executive value to the business has actually increased. It makes more sense economically to attribute the price increase to the rise in executive pay than it does to blame the minimum wage.

PM_me_your_math 3y ago

[dead]

jncfhnb 3y ago

The ability of automation to drive the worker contributions lower and lower will far outpace the workers “hustle” in this regard

mint2 3y ago

Worker productivity versus wage graphs show that false.

martin8412 3y ago

This is simply the result of greed from the owners. McDonald's in Denmark has had lower/same prices as the US depending on currency exchange rate while giving full benefits and higher salaries to their workers. McDonald's Denmark is rated among the best places to work. The difference is that the franchise taker doesn't get to underpay workers to prop up their own compensation. If they want higher compensation, they'll have to work for it and expand.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
I ate McDonald's in Aarhus once (2006) and remember it being even more expensive than Switzerland, where I was living at the time. These days, big macs are expensive in the USA (we paid $6.50 in Seattle yesterday for just one big mac), I'm pretty sure that is competitive Denmark today, right?
- martin8412 3y ago
  A Big Mac in Denmark as of July 2023 costs 38DKK, which with today's currency conversion rate comes to $5.46. DKK is pegged to EUR, so the conversation rate follows the EUR to USD fluctuations.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Ya, I think the Euro was much more dear in 2006 compared to the Swiss Franc. Now it is very much the opposite.

jakobson14 3y ago

This guy has Stockholm syndrome. Doesn't matter how much value you generate for The Company. They're perfectly happy to take it from you for free if they can get away with it. Without bargaining power and leverage, either through unions or scarcity of labour, there's no natural limit to how little a company will pay it's employees. Used to be that knowledge workers were scarce, now everyone is getting degrees. The scarcity of the engineering labour pool that meant people could get good jobs without a union is gone. If you want a good job, get a union.