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The NYPD is using drones 3 times more than it did last year
- peder 3y agoAnd they're using drones infinity more than they did before drones were invented
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y agoWe'll need more "automated" policing (and everything) as a larger share of local budgets goes to pensions instead of actually providing services. Unless life expectancy ticks up, unexpectedly and dramatically, the share of local budgets going to pensions should plateau in the next 5-20 years in most places. After that - the decline in public services might finally stop.
- mcphage 3y agoWho manufactured their drones? The article lists one manufacturer, but then says the NYPD hasn’t received it yet. So what are they flying?
- latchkey 3y agoThere are several pictures of DJI products in the article.
- erellsworth 3y agoIronic, considering the DOJ has labeled DJI products as a threat to national security.
- pc86 3y agoMilitarized police is also a threat to national security so it kind of fits.
- kube-system 3y agoWhich might by why they are acquiring drones from US manufacturers, according to the article.
- latchkey 3y agoYears ago, I backed a US based drone on kickstarter. It took forever for them to send it to me. Eventually, I managed to get it and I took it for one single flight and it went out of control and crashed itself into the side of a building. Somehow I eventually managed to get my money back, thankfully. The company realized that consumer focus was wrong (nobody had a good experience with their product with tons of complaints in user forums) and pivoted to govt drones because they got millions in grant funding. I can't imagine these guys ever producing anything even close to the level of quality that DJI does. Needless to say, their website hasn't really been updated in years. The amount of grift these guys managed to pull off is insane. https://vantagerobotics.com/ https://vantagerobotics.com/
- Arrath 3y agoHaving used several of the drones on the DoD's 'approved for use on/near military property' list or whatever it's called these days, they are generally speaking, flying pieces of shit[0]. Our domestic manufacturers have some catching up to do. [0]Problems run the gamut from excessive bootup times to extraordinarily poor station-keeping/wind fighting ability, low speed, clunky controllers, and more!
- willk 3y agoThey article show DJI. I know the local PD's in my area are also using DJI.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoReminds me of this is how the police behave on getting hardware: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo63QQsm5Dw&t=72s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo63QQsm5Dw&t=72s
- ipnon 3y agoA natural extension of the Shot Spotter system would be to dispatch a small drone to go collect evidence immediately. I’ve actually witnessed a drive by shooting in New York. The police arrived in 2 minutes but the perps were gone in 2 seconds. If a drone could chase after people driving around the city wantonly shooting guns it would greatly improve safety of neighborhoods.
- jncfhnb 3y agoWhat could possibly go wrong
- jeron 3y agothey drive under a bridge and lose the suspects that or the suspects shoot at the drone, which would be really cyberpunk
- doublerabbit 3y agoOr the drone shoots the suspects, which would be really dystopian. We have two universes: 2077 or 1984
- kube-system 3y agoMilitarized human-driven drones have existed since the 80s. Militarized automated drones are being used today, in the wars currently happening. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2278852-drones-may-have-attacked-humans-fully-autonomously-for-the-first-time/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/2278852-drones-may-have... https://www.newscientist.com/article/2282656-israel-used-worlds-first-ai-guided-combat-drone-swarm-in-gaza-attacks/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/2282656-israel-used-wor...
- tootie 3y agoArguably the V-2 rocket was the first unmanned military aircraft.
- anttisalmela 3y agoEntire police force of Finland (~7300) is only about fifth of NYPD (~33000 officers), but they have over 10 times more drones, more than 330. https://poliisi.fi/en/unmanned-aerial-vehicles https://poliisi.fi/en/unmanned-aerial-vehicles
- alex_young 3y agoFor the entire country? Finland is ~277 times the size of NYC, so drones / km is much lower right?
- Smar 3y agoGood that count of polices is better than NY at least.
- red-iron-pine 3y agoNot a function of space, but a function of people. Finland has 5.6 million people; Greater NYC has ~23 million people.
- local_crmdgeon 3y agoGood. There's a lot of unrest in the city, and cops can't be everywhere. I know HN is very anti-cop, but as an NYC resident, voter, and politically active person I support this.
- tootie 3y agoI haven't noticed. I see a lot more mentally ill people on the loose, but not really any perceptible increase in crime. I'm hoping they hover one of these over Flatbush and Dekalb and ticket all the drivers weaving through pedestrians.
- booleandilemma 3y agoI have. Violent crime is rampant in NYC. Just a few examples from this year: https://abc7ny.com/bodega-shooting-upper-east-side-fatal-robbery/12912865/ https://abc7ny.com/bodega-shooting-upper-east-side-fatal-rob... https://nypost.com/2023/10/05/suspect-18-arrested-for-random-stabbing-of-nyc-activist/ https://nypost.com/2023/10/05/suspect-18-arrested-for-random... https://nypost.com/2023/09/03/man-shot-dead-during-attempted-robbery-at-nyc-gas-station-cops/ https://nypost.com/2023/09/03/man-shot-dead-during-attempted... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y7DbenLbA1E https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y7DbenLbA1E
- karaterobot 3y ago> New York City saw overall crime decline again in August, led by continued sharp reductions in violence, and the tangible effects of proactive policing – including hundreds of individuals in possession of illegal firearms arrested, and dozens of fewer shootings committed. For the month of August 2023, New York City saw a 23.5% drop in shooting incidents compared to August 2022 (88 v. 115). The decrease in shootings extends the 26.1% decrease in shooting incidents citywide through the first eight months of 2023, compared to the same period a year ago (684 v. 926) – meaning 315 fewer people have been shot this year compared to last year. Additionally, homicides fell by 10% (269 v. 298) in comparison to the previous year’s first eight months. https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/p00092/nypd-citywide-crime-statistics-august-2023 https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/p00092/nypd-citywide-crim... Now this is the NYPD's own crime statistics, so if you have a better source for statistics please send it. I'm not sure what other data source there would be. Anyway, aggregate statistics are more valuable for this sort of question than individual incidents.
- lasermike026 3y agoDo you know what the NYPD is not doing? Upholding the law, maintaining a good diet, and exercising.
- owenpalmer 3y agoCan you provide some evidence for your statement?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- hackideiomat 3y agoThey do, sometimes, yes. But,most of them seem to be corrupt, fat and merely running after foreigners to tackle them if you wanna call that exercise.
- b8 3y agoI wonder if protestors will make EMP guns or use umbrellas to avoid drones/cameras like the Hong Kong protestors.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jmprspret 3y agoOr maybe a sharp shooter with a cartoonish wooden slingshot and some pebbles
- m3kw9 3y agoMore effective than a heli
- tootie 3y agoUnrelated, but I saw what I think is a quadcopter air taxi land at the seaport today. I assume it's got a pilot, but it's interesting to see the quadcopter format in something so big.
- zone411 3y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF9kALXnfxY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF9kALXnfxY
- whartung 3y agoThere may be an interesting space in "right to drone" (or however you want to put it). Simply, considering the one mention how they used drones to monitor protests, it may be fair to assume that these drones were being used in way or in places where it may well have been illegal for civilians to use such systems (I am not well informed on where civilians can or can not use drones, I just know, anecdotally, that it seems the air space for civilian drones continues to shrink). That suggests that the police have authority to use air space for their purposes, such as monitoring civilian activity, but civilians do not have a similar, legal, capability to use the same technology to monitor police activity. Police have always had extra powers. I don't think I can hire a private investigator to go to court, convince a judge, and get a writ, or warrant, or whatever to place a tap on another persons phone, like the police can. But, even still, its fair to argue that the separation of powers between the state and citizenry should be narrow. Police activity in public is, well, in public, and I think well within the purview of the citizenry to be able to watch and monitor freely. But, in specific regards to these drone uses, and restrictions there on, I don't know if that's a level playing field any more.
- adolph 3y agoFrom the article: Federal drone law says that “no person may operate a small unmanned aircraft over a human being.” But the NYPD has an exemption waiver from the Federal Aviation Administration through August 2025 that allows it to fly drones in populated areas, at night, over 400 feet in the air, among other things.
- vondur 3y agoHeck, they have the ability to have helicopters flying overhead whenever they feel, so drones are just an extension of that power. Or at least, that is how they would spin it.
- lmm 3y ago> Police have always had extra powers. I don't think I can hire a private investigator to go to court, convince a judge, and get a writ, or warrant, or whatever to place a tap on another persons phone, like the police can. Hmm, that's directly contrary to one of Peel's founding principles. > To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
- cristeigabriel 3y agoit would be really interesting to sabotage these
- INTPenis 3y agoLocal police force here in Sweden too. It's kinda nuts for me to turn a corner and see a police van with a dude wearing a visor and a control panel. And sometimes I've seen the drones hovering in the city, just watching, getting a bird's eye view. I've also seen them track counter protests from the sky. And yes I did of course imagine some sort of radio jamming equipment, but the problem is that police are everywhere and if they see where you're at they will quickly scramble to arrest you. An optimal solution would be maximum distance, and covertness.
- nextworddev 3y agoSounds dystopian
- latency-guy2 3y agoYeah, what isn't dystopian these days. Cameras are recording you every second of every day. All governments are monitoring your internet habits and you almost certainly are not doing enough to counteract them. All governments even admit to it, there's a major "scandal" where everyone acts surprised like it isn't the 10th time its happened in the last century, maybe even the last decade alone. All your personal data has been leaked by both bad actors and genuine mistakes. There is no restitution for this. Privacy is dead, and it's been dead for longer than you think it is. If anything, drones are a step backwards because we can actually see them.
- cheriot 3y agoI wish SFPD used drones more often. Instead they say nothing can be done because they're prohibited from high speed chases where it endangers the public.
- tamimio 3y ago> We're out there using drones to fight crime They will be used in anything but to fighting crimes.
- s1mon 3y agoI don't love police surveillance, but where I live in San Francisco, some of the worst noise pollution is when one or more helicopters circle for an hour. Usually this is news and/or police dealing with some protest or traffic situation. I'd much prefer this to be some drones.
- pmarreck 3y agoI’m fine with this. Video evidence is proof of truth. Is there a danger of privacy intrusion or misinterpretation of evidence akin to https://martinfowler.com/articles/bothersome-privacy.html https://martinfowler.com/articles/bothersome-privacy.html ? Yes. Fortunately, no surveillance is absolute.
- woodruffw 3y agoDrones are the NYPD's version of the ATM paradox[1]: spending on police drones goes up, and so does overtime[2]. See also: the city's (ab)use of drones to surveil people in their backyards earlier this year[3]. [1]: https://rlo.acton.org/archives/90693-atms-bank-tellers-and-the-automation-paradox.html https://rlo.acton.org/archives/90693-atms-bank-tellers-and-t... [2]: https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/nypd-overspending-on-overtime-grew-dramatically-in-recent-years/ https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/nypd-overspending-on-ov... [3]: https://apnews.com/article/drones-labor-day-eric-adams-nypd-jouvert-c2787e87bcad8fa87aa8d34b454ee6cf https://apnews.com/article/drones-labor-day-eric-adams-nypd-...
- preommr 3y ago> ATM paradox[1] It's only a paradox because people are comparing absolute numbers after a period of time ignoring things like population growth. The average number of tellers per branch went down. There's also more horses in the us now than in the 1800s (~5mn vs 9mn now) even though cars have completely replaced them as a form of transport.
- sp0rk 3y ago> The average number of tellers per branch went down. Why is the number of tellers per branch an important metric?
- 4gotunameagain 3y agoI guess that because assuming unchanging branch sizes over time (which must follow the patterns of real estate), the number of branches should correlate with population size, therefore you take population out of the equation
- red-iron-pine 3y agolabor cost, plus likelihood of errors, theft, getting shot in a holdup, etc. ATMs just have lower overhead and less chance of being blackmailed into a heist
- wly_cdgr 3y agoFOMO is real
- 23B1 3y ago[flagged]
- wenyuanyu 3y agoOh... I thought it was just adding 3 more instances of drone usage to last year's total before I realized it actually meant the usage was multiplied by three. (I am not a native English speaker)
- 3cats-in-a-coat 3y agoEventually it'll all be just drones. Pandora's unbox-like jar thing and so on.
- theptip 3y agoOne example where I think this would clearly be great - if the police were able to respond to most crimes (eg gunshot, robbery, car theft) fast enough to establish line of sight with a drone, and then follow at a safe enough distance - so no cops firing at perps and hitting bystanders, and no police chases causing collateral damage. Drone first responders might be cheap enough and fast enough to get extremely low response times across the city. I think there are lots of reasonable objections to pervasive surveillance (I don’t want widespread drone patrols), but very rapid response times seem like a way to get many of the benefits with few of the downsides. (Just don’t weaponize them, please…)
- herbst 3y agoI was at an music festival in Czech where the police used tiny FPS drones without any visible light to hover over the crowds and find whatever. Not sure if that is legal but it was weird as f*.
- cvccvroomvroom 3y agoAusin PD also runs drones around the East side for unknown reasons, but only in the early morning between 1 and 4am.
- happytiger 3y agoI think the war in Ukraine has really made military and police planners (and the NYPD is more or less both) very aware of their effectiveness. I expect a massive infusion of drone platforms in police work in coming years. It’s an obvious application.