10 ms·

I definitely agree, I can count with my hands how often I do transaction with ebanking, payment app (similar to google pay), and friends. I dislike the idea tha

by lemper 3y ago

I definitely agree, I can count with my hands how often I do transaction with ebanking, payment app (similar to google pay), and friends. I dislike the idea that people can track where, how much, and how often my money flow. so I resist the temptation of using that kind of stuff. p.s., I don't have any credit card.

insanitybit 3y ago
> p.s., I don't have any credit card. This feels like it's just throwing money away though. Like, just an example - Banana Republic will give you a CC for 20% off purchases + 200 dollars off of purchases. There's no fees. So as long as you always pay the minimum, or don't spend on it, you just made 200 bucks + 20% back on anything you've spent. The "cost" is that American Express knows that I'm buying certain items. I'm ok with that... I find it kinda weird that anyone wouldn't be - is it supposed to be a secret that I wear pants? I get wanting to avoid using a CC for something sensitive, but what's the issue with putting groceries and clothing on a CC that pays you back? It can easily be thousands of dollars back to you.
- pc86 3y ago
  Not having a credit card if you are able to is, objectively, idiotic. Having it doesn't mean you have to use it, but you are leaving thousands of dollars a year on the table if you don't use it. Debit cards don't have nearly the chargeback protections credit does. They don't have any of the warranty protections. They don't have any of the card-member services. Look at two people, one who just has a wad of cash and a debit card, and one who has that plus 3 or 4 credit cards. They both travel to a different country and get their debit account frozen erroneously. One is in a world of hurt, the other is mildly inconvenienced.
  - doublerabbit 3y ago
    When I had a credit card I couldn't stop using it even pass my limit. Credit cards work when you have self-control and to many who don't it's a wreck of your life. If you have a credit card and then suddenly made redundant then what? They all good and fun when you have an income but as soon as you loose that, your screwed. At least with debit it's real time and that if you need that extra in a pinch, setup an overdraft. Credit cards are form of evil and I'll stand by that.
    - 2023throwawayy 3y ago
      Your lack of self control doesn’t make them evil. I never carry a larger balance than I can pay off in full with cash any time. I’ll take my “form of evil”, have fun with your overdraft fees.
      - doublerabbit 3y ago
        I have no overdraft fees. Nor am I in debt.
    - vidyesh 3y ago
      > Credit cards work when you have self-control and to many who don't it's a wreck of your life. Yes, and as an adult or a responsible individual it a good trait to have. Learn to use money and other financial means wisely. Take that step and it will make a lot of difference. Unable to understand this is more evil to yourself than what the CCs do to you. You can call your CC provider and ask them to reduce your limit to what you can afford to pay at the end of the month. They will hesitate, but most will end up doing that for you.
    - tekla 3y ago
      This applies to any economic transaction. there is nothing stopping you from spending all your money at once with a debit card.
      - moritzwarhier 3y ago
        No this does not apply to any economic transaction. With a CC, anything you spend is turned into debt first, and the CC companies often position their products in a way that encourages accumulating more debt than you can realistically pay off. Actual payment, in the sense that you are being charged for the thing/service you bought, is delayed. For people who actually have to pay attention to stay on a monthly budget, for example because they are not overly wealthy, this is a danger. Sure I am ready to admit that money equals debt in the end. But that does not change anything about the difference between immediate spending of money and taking up debt to spend money.
    - 3y ago
- styfle 3y ago
  I think the bigger thing that’s overlooked is that nearly every item today is priced assuming the 3% fee from credit cards. So by not using a credit card, you’re not getting the 3% cash back (or rewards equivalent) and therefore paying more. There are a handful of places that offer a discount if you pay with cash (or rather a fee if you pay with a card) in order to make these fees clear to the buyer, but it’s becoming rare. Usually gov websites like DMV or mom/pop shops.
  - AdamN 3y ago
    Only the US has percentages that high.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    The cost to handle cash is about 3%. People forget how much is lost to cash because it is invisible. However with cash the clerk counts it twice, then the manager counts it twice - someone will mess up so count it again. Then there us theft.
- meindnoch 3y ago
  >Banana Republic will give you a CC for 20% off purchases *first purchase
  - insanitybit 3y ago
    I don't remember the terms, really. The point is, you're just leaving money on the table with offers like these, if you don't take them.
    - meindnoch 3y ago
      20% cashback forever would be ridiculous. Use your common sense.
- ComposedPattern 3y ago
  The problem is that your purchases in aggregate are used to profile you and decide how you should be treated as a customer. Companies decide whether to reject your returns, or to offer you deals on products, based on consumer scoring [1]. Even the background check for my current job involved accessing my consumer score. I don't know if this is in fact done, but I can imagine that an employer could use information reported about your spending to determine what salary they think you would accept. In any case, I don't really want to have to think about this. I don't need to worry about abuse of data that I don't give out in the first place. Also, apart from your personal self-interest, every dollar you spend in cash is a vote for it to continue being accepted. This is important because there's a minority of people who are excluded from the financial system and depend on cash. For example: undocumented immigrants, sex workers, tax protesters, victims of identity theft, protesters who have had their bank accounts frozen [2], and people who, for inscrutable business reasons, are deemed too high-risk to have bank accounts [3]. If those were the only people who used cash, companies would probably not care to accept it anymore. But the more people continue to use cash on principle, the longer it will remain as an escape hatch for those who need it. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/business/secret-consumer-score-access.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/business/secret-consumer-... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385 [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/05/business/banks-accounts-close-suddenly.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/05/business/banks-accounts-c...
jfdbcv 3y ago
In the US, not having a credit card is horrible financial advice. You're paying an additional 3% on all transactions, as that's the standard credit card processing fee. You're also failing to build up your credit score, which is pretty important if you're ever looking to rent or buy a home.
- darkclouds 3y ago
  [dead]
- lemper 3y ago
  good thing I don't live in a society with social credit score. be it in consumption or something else.
  - jfdbcv 3y ago
    tradeoff is harder access to liquidity -- would banks be willing to give as much credit without credibility?

by lemper 3y ago

insanitybit 3y ago

> p.s., I don't have any credit card. This feels like it's just throwing money away though. Like, just an example - Banana Republic will give you a CC for 20% off purchases + 200 dollars off of purchases. There's no fees. So as long as you always pay the minimum, or don't spend on it, you just made 200 bucks + 20% back on anything you've spent. The "cost" is that American Express knows that I'm buying certain items. I'm ok with that... I find it kinda weird that anyone wouldn't be - is it supposed to be a secret that I wear pants? I get wanting to avoid using a CC for something sensitive, but what's the issue with putting groceries and clothing on a CC that pays you back? It can easily be thousands of dollars back to you.

pc86 3y ago
Not having a credit card if you are able to is, objectively, idiotic. Having it doesn't mean you have to use it, but you are leaving thousands of dollars a year on the table if you don't use it. Debit cards don't have nearly the chargeback protections credit does. They don't have any of the warranty protections. They don't have any of the card-member services. Look at two people, one who just has a wad of cash and a debit card, and one who has that plus 3 or 4 credit cards. They both travel to a different country and get their debit account frozen erroneously. One is in a world of hurt, the other is mildly inconvenienced.
- doublerabbit 3y ago
  When I had a credit card I couldn't stop using it even pass my limit. Credit cards work when you have self-control and to many who don't it's a wreck of your life. If you have a credit card and then suddenly made redundant then what? They all good and fun when you have an income but as soon as you loose that, your screwed. At least with debit it's real time and that if you need that extra in a pinch, setup an overdraft. Credit cards are form of evil and I'll stand by that.
  - 2023throwawayy 3y ago
    Your lack of self control doesn’t make them evil. I never carry a larger balance than I can pay off in full with cash any time. I’ll take my “form of evil”, have fun with your overdraft fees.
    - doublerabbit 3y ago
      I have no overdraft fees. Nor am I in debt.
  - vidyesh 3y ago
    > Credit cards work when you have self-control and to many who don't it's a wreck of your life. Yes, and as an adult or a responsible individual it a good trait to have. Learn to use money and other financial means wisely. Take that step and it will make a lot of difference. Unable to understand this is more evil to yourself than what the CCs do to you. You can call your CC provider and ask them to reduce your limit to what you can afford to pay at the end of the month. They will hesitate, but most will end up doing that for you.
  - tekla 3y ago
    This applies to any economic transaction. there is nothing stopping you from spending all your money at once with a debit card.
    - moritzwarhier 3y ago
      No this does not apply to any economic transaction. With a CC, anything you spend is turned into debt first, and the CC companies often position their products in a way that encourages accumulating more debt than you can realistically pay off. Actual payment, in the sense that you are being charged for the thing/service you bought, is delayed. For people who actually have to pay attention to stay on a monthly budget, for example because they are not overly wealthy, this is a danger. Sure I am ready to admit that money equals debt in the end. But that does not change anything about the difference between immediate spending of money and taking up debt to spend money.
  - 3y ago
styfle 3y ago
I think the bigger thing that’s overlooked is that nearly every item today is priced assuming the 3% fee from credit cards. So by not using a credit card, you’re not getting the 3% cash back (or rewards equivalent) and therefore paying more. There are a handful of places that offer a discount if you pay with cash (or rather a fee if you pay with a card) in order to make these fees clear to the buyer, but it’s becoming rare. Usually gov websites like DMV or mom/pop shops.
- AdamN 3y ago
  Only the US has percentages that high.
- bluGill 3y ago
  The cost to handle cash is about 3%. People forget how much is lost to cash because it is invisible. However with cash the clerk counts it twice, then the manager counts it twice - someone will mess up so count it again. Then there us theft.
meindnoch 3y ago
>Banana Republic will give you a CC for 20% off purchases *first purchase
- insanitybit 3y ago
  I don't remember the terms, really. The point is, you're just leaving money on the table with offers like these, if you don't take them.
  - meindnoch 3y ago
    20% cashback forever would be ridiculous. Use your common sense.
ComposedPattern 3y ago
The problem is that your purchases in aggregate are used to profile you and decide how you should be treated as a customer. Companies decide whether to reject your returns, or to offer you deals on products, based on consumer scoring [1]. Even the background check for my current job involved accessing my consumer score. I don't know if this is in fact done, but I can imagine that an employer could use information reported about your spending to determine what salary they think you would accept. In any case, I don't really want to have to think about this. I don't need to worry about abuse of data that I don't give out in the first place. Also, apart from your personal self-interest, every dollar you spend in cash is a vote for it to continue being accepted. This is important because there's a minority of people who are excluded from the financial system and depend on cash. For example: undocumented immigrants, sex workers, tax protesters, victims of identity theft, protesters who have had their bank accounts frozen [2], and people who, for inscrutable business reasons, are deemed too high-risk to have bank accounts [3]. If those were the only people who used cash, companies would probably not care to accept it anymore. But the more people continue to use cash on principle, the longer it will remain as an escape hatch for those who need it. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/business/secret-consumer-score-access.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/business/secret-consumer-... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385 [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/05/business/banks-accounts-close-suddenly.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/05/business/banks-accounts-c...

jfdbcv 3y ago

In the US, not having a credit card is horrible financial advice. You're paying an additional 3% on all transactions, as that's the standard credit card processing fee. You're also failing to build up your credit score, which is pretty important if you're ever looking to rent or buy a home.

darkclouds 3y ago
[dead]
lemper 3y ago
good thing I don't live in a society with social credit score. be it in consumption or something else.
- jfdbcv 3y ago
  tradeoff is harder access to liquidity -- would banks be willing to give as much credit without credibility?