4 ms·

Well, that’s the core of the question. Isn’t a sale a transfer of ownership? Once it’s sold it’s not theirs any more. This goes both for Tesla and Ferrari, and

Well, that’s the core of the question. Isn’t a sale a transfer of ownership? Once it’s sold it’s not theirs any more. This goes both for Tesla and Ferrari, and everyone else.

1123581321 3y ago
Sales contracts can have terms that are in force after the transfer of the asset. A more classic example is when the car seller also extends you credit. They are allowed to repossess the car if you stop making payments, even though you are the owner.
- yladiz 3y ago
  Technically if you take credit/a loan to pay for the car, you are not the owner of the car, the bank is, and you’re just in possession of the title, so it’s not exactly the same as this situation.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Technically if you take credit/a loan to pay for the car, you are not the owner of the car, the bank is, and you’re just in possession of the title You are the owner, they just have a lien. Before that qualifies as ownership, possession takes hold.
    - dharmab 3y ago
      Most states distinguish between the registered owner and the legal owner, and a lienholder is the legal owner. Houses are different; you legally own your house while paying the mortgage.
  - 1123581321 3y ago
    Right, it’s not exactly the same, but a title lien is not the same as a title in the name of the lender, and we still consider the car to be owned by the buyer during the loan period for every purpose except the right to discontinue the loan. I was hoping a more familiar example might help that person understand that sales agreements are a widespread practice and enforceable (for better and worse.)
cryptoz 3y ago
Well for a quick point of comparison there are very numerous and very strict rules about what you’re allowed to do with a Mac. Or iPhone. Or Android. Or windows device. All of them forbid you from learning about how they work, much less changing how they work. Not sure about legality but certainly it’s against the license. Which is what you transacted right? You don’t “own” your iPhone for any reasonable definition of the word “own”. But you bought it, or so you think, but what you really did is pay money and sign an agreement. I doubt Apple thinks that you actually own the device once you buy it.
- yreg 3y ago
  No, they are not. There are limitations connected to keeping the warranty, but otherwise you can do what you want. Apple won't sue you for “misusing” your iPhone, they have no grounds to.
- pjerem 3y ago
  That’s an issue and a lot of people and regulators are actively fighting against it. Also, any of those restrictions are hardware/software enforced. You can do whatever the hell you want with it if you happen to find how to circumvent those limitations.

Well, that’s the core of the question. Isn’t a sale a transfer of ownership? Once it’s sold it’s not theirs any more. This goes both for Tesla and Ferrari, and everyone else.

1123581321 3y ago

Sales contracts can have terms that are in force after the transfer of the asset. A more classic example is when the car seller also extends you credit. They are allowed to repossess the car if you stop making payments, even though you are the owner.

yladiz 3y ago
Technically if you take credit/a loan to pay for the car, you are not the owner of the car, the bank is, and you’re just in possession of the title, so it’s not exactly the same as this situation.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Technically if you take credit/a loan to pay for the car, you are not the owner of the car, the bank is, and you’re just in possession of the title You are the owner, they just have a lien. Before that qualifies as ownership, possession takes hold.
  - dharmab 3y ago
    Most states distinguish between the registered owner and the legal owner, and a lienholder is the legal owner. Houses are different; you legally own your house while paying the mortgage.
- 1123581321 3y ago
  Right, it’s not exactly the same, but a title lien is not the same as a title in the name of the lender, and we still consider the car to be owned by the buyer during the loan period for every purpose except the right to discontinue the loan. I was hoping a more familiar example might help that person understand that sales agreements are a widespread practice and enforceable (for better and worse.)

cryptoz 3y ago

Well for a quick point of comparison there are very numerous and very strict rules about what you’re allowed to do with a Mac. Or iPhone. Or Android. Or windows device. All of them forbid you from learning about how they work, much less changing how they work. Not sure about legality but certainly it’s against the license. Which is what you transacted right? You don’t “own” your iPhone for any reasonable definition of the word “own”. But you bought it, or so you think, but what you really did is pay money and sign an agreement. I doubt Apple thinks that you actually own the device once you buy it.

yreg 3y ago
No, they are not. There are limitations connected to keeping the warranty, but otherwise you can do what you want. Apple won't sue you for “misusing” your iPhone, they have no grounds to.
pjerem 3y ago
That’s an issue and a lot of people and regulators are actively fighting against it. Also, any of those restrictions are hardware/software enforced. You can do whatever the hell you want with it if you happen to find how to circumvent those limitations.