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I hate to quote so much of the post—it's well worth a read—but I think it's bookended by two very different experiences that convey so much about the U.S. priso

I hate to quote so much of the post—it's well worth a read—but I think it's bookended by two very different experiences that convey so much about the U.S. prison system. > A few years later, I left prison with $0 in my pocket (lawyers and commissary are expensive, and nobody pays you what they owe you when you come in), to a rooming house with hallways that smelled like crack-smoke and were filled with parole officers and junkies. I was left with the difficult choice of either living there and walking to a temp agency with hopes of making $10.50/hour doing manual labor (without an ID or social security card at this point), or getting on a bus to NYC to see some associates, and coming back in a week or so with $15-25k in my pocket and living in comfy luxury hotels until I could rent an apartment… I chose the latter, obviously, and was back in prison after 14mo. ...and later: > I am very grateful for the opportunity, but I recognize that this is very much the exception and not the rule, and the success of the Maine model of corrections should highlight the absolutely embarrassing lack of opportunities in the rest of the system, to do anything but become a bitter, broke criminal; deprived of not just your freedom, family, financial security and reputation, but also of your self-identity as someone worth investing in changing. We need to do better as a society, and understand that, yes, there are people in the system that deserve this kind of punishment, but a large majority of our prison population are just regular people… non-violent drug offenders like myself. There are plenty more, like me, that are capable of being responsible, productive, tax paying members of society if given the opportunity, but you cannot expect anyone to change when you just lock them up in a cage with a bunch of other criminals where there is a subculture of endless negativity.

k1ns 3y ago
Prisons in the USA are for-profit enterprises that rely on a consistent population. They have no incentive to rehabilitate, in fact it's the opposite. What I don't understand is how a country with so many advantages like the USA could come up with arguably the worst prison system in the world. As a citizen, it's embarrassing that this is accepted by those in power as a good solution.
- pcl 3y ago
  As it turns out, Maine (where the author of the article ended up) has gotten rid of all their for-profit prisons, as of 2020. https://www.criminon.org/where-we-work/united-states/maine/ https://www.criminon.org/where-we-work/united-states/maine/
- oooyay 3y ago
  Private prisons are problematic in their own right, but they only make up 8% of the total prison population at the state and federal level. imo, we (the citizens) are to blame for constantly championing a system of accountability that believes accountability is putting a man in a box and taking every future opportunity he doesn't know yet away from him. You can certainly blame those in power, and they share some blame, but we also elect to these sentences. https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/private-prisons-in-the-united-states/ https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/private-prisons-in...
  - rendall 3y ago
    Agreed. It's not "powers that be" that impose this system on Americans, it's we Americans ourselves. We vote for politicians who are tough on crime - meaning long prison sentences, unsafe conditions, no robust public defense.
    - sitkack 3y ago
      All true, but we also don’t rehabilitate. Prisoners should come out better then they went in not worse.
      - k1ns 3y ago
        My main concern exactly.
      - rendall 3y ago
        We are in agreement. I could have added "... prioritize retribution with rehabilitation at best an afterthought"
edgyquant 3y ago
So he chose to go back to a life of crime and we’re supposed to feel bad for him? There’s a reason he was able to make 20k in a weekend, it’s a high risk high reward business and I have no sympathy for someone who skirts societal norms and makes a shit ton of money in the process while plenty of people suck it up and earn the 10.50 until they can get back out in their own. This guy and his entire post reeks of entitlement, beginning with “non-violent drug offenses” in the first paragraph. That’s an opinion, he wasn’t arrested for possession in reality he made a ton of money selling dangerous drugs to kids. Maybe they should be legal, some of that I agree with (I spent a lot of my late teens and early twenties in jail or on probation for simple possession and have a felony to this day for it) but that doesn’t mean you should be able to peddle chemicals you don’t understand in large quantities. Your upbringing being bad doesn’t make that okay either.
- next_xibalba 3y ago
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  - gavinray 3y ago
    > He had his chances to be a productive, tax paying member of society and he blew it I love this thought that people in the US with felony convictions can just go out and be: "productive, tax paying member of society". I'll place a wager that if you called <$CURRENT_COMPANY> and ask them if they even HIRE felons, they'll tell you "No, as a matter of corporate policy." So, what then -- work for $10/hr so that you can barely make rent in your project housing and spend your entire life a single injury or natural disaster away from financial insolvency and homelessness? That's a bleak existence to even think about, much less spend a lifetime living. The US criminal justice system is fundamentally broken, and we DO NOT AFFORD convicted felons the opportunity to have a decent life as a normal member of society.
    - igor47 3y ago
      1000x this. I only became a successful, productive member of society because a friend personally asked the CTO of a tech company to approve hiring me despite my computer crimes felony -- and the CTO took that chance. The company later went public for $B and now I am an angel investor and open source contributor etc, but I got lucky that I knew the right person at the right time. Our records follow us forever, and corporations/HR departments do not take risks like that.
bionsystem 3y ago
> There are plenty more, like me, that are capable of being responsible, productive, tax paying members of society if given the opportunity, but you cannot expect anyone to change when you just lock them up in a cage with a bunch of other criminals where there is a subculture of endless negativity. Of course they expect inmates to change, but towards even more criminality, not towards rehabilitation. This will justify them for being inmates in the first place (and thus the existence of the model) and justify them to come back later. It's a very profitable business model. The whole article is fantastic though.
- freedomben 3y ago
  > Of course they expect inmates to change, but towards even more criminality, not towards rehabilitation. Who is "they"?
  - ebiester 3y ago
    Those that profit off of the prison system, whether it be the ecosystem of companies supporting the system or those that are employed by it.
chroma 3y ago
He was convicted of possessing 30 grams of carfentanil while on parole for his previous conviction. A lethal dose of carfentanil is 2mg, so it was at least 15,000 doses. 1. https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2017/20171011-preston-thorpe-sentence.htm https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2017/20171011-preston-thorpe-sen...
- Nursie 3y ago
  Fuck me, carfentanil is one of those things I read about years ago, that seemed like it would never get anywhere near the recreational drug market, because it’s just too potent and too dangerous to handle safely… Ah, I see from your link it was u-47700 he was arrested with. Certainly a potent and potentially lethal substance, but not exactly on the same scale as carfentanil. U-47700 is quoted as 7.5x the potency of morphine, fentanyl at 50-100x and carfentanil around 4000
  - chroma 3y ago
    Apologies. I read a news article about him being charged with carfentanil possession and assumed the conviction referred to that. Apparently the carfentanil was found in his apartment and he was later caught with the other synthetic opioid.
    - Nursie 3y ago
      Well, god help whoever gets that in their syringe. AFAICT its main 'legit' use was to bring down large animals like elephants, fast, but that seems to have stopped in 2003. It has also probably been used as a chemical weapon in Russia! I guess it was the next logical step in the "smaller quantities of more powerful stuff are easier to smuggle" race, but I'd expect to see more dealers turning up dead from accidental exposure if it became widespread.
- AdmiralAsshat 3y ago
  Did you mean 30 kilograms?
  - 3y ago
RecycledEle 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago
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k1ns 3y ago

Prisons in the USA are for-profit enterprises that rely on a consistent population. They have no incentive to rehabilitate, in fact it's the opposite. What I don't understand is how a country with so many advantages like the USA could come up with arguably the worst prison system in the world. As a citizen, it's embarrassing that this is accepted by those in power as a good solution.

pcl 3y ago
As it turns out, Maine (where the author of the article ended up) has gotten rid of all their for-profit prisons, as of 2020. https://www.criminon.org/where-we-work/united-states/maine/ https://www.criminon.org/where-we-work/united-states/maine/
oooyay 3y ago
Private prisons are problematic in their own right, but they only make up 8% of the total prison population at the state and federal level. imo, we (the citizens) are to blame for constantly championing a system of accountability that believes accountability is putting a man in a box and taking every future opportunity he doesn't know yet away from him. You can certainly blame those in power, and they share some blame, but we also elect to these sentences. https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/private-prisons-in-the-united-states/ https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/private-prisons-in...
- rendall 3y ago
  Agreed. It's not "powers that be" that impose this system on Americans, it's we Americans ourselves. We vote for politicians who are tough on crime - meaning long prison sentences, unsafe conditions, no robust public defense.
  - sitkack 3y ago
    All true, but we also don’t rehabilitate. Prisoners should come out better then they went in not worse.
    - k1ns 3y ago
      My main concern exactly.
    - rendall 3y ago
      We are in agreement. I could have added "... prioritize retribution with rehabilitation at best an afterthought"

edgyquant 3y ago

So he chose to go back to a life of crime and we’re supposed to feel bad for him? There’s a reason he was able to make 20k in a weekend, it’s a high risk high reward business and I have no sympathy for someone who skirts societal norms and makes a shit ton of money in the process while plenty of people suck it up and earn the 10.50 until they can get back out in their own. This guy and his entire post reeks of entitlement, beginning with “non-violent drug offenses” in the first paragraph. That’s an opinion, he wasn’t arrested for possession in reality he made a ton of money selling dangerous drugs to kids. Maybe they should be legal, some of that I agree with (I spent a lot of my late teens and early twenties in jail or on probation for simple possession and have a felony to this day for it) but that doesn’t mean you should be able to peddle chemicals you don’t understand in large quantities. Your upbringing being bad doesn’t make that okay either.

next_xibalba 3y ago
[flagged]
- gavinray 3y ago
  > He had his chances to be a productive, tax paying member of society and he blew it I love this thought that people in the US with felony convictions can just go out and be: "productive, tax paying member of society". I'll place a wager that if you called <$CURRENT_COMPANY> and ask them if they even HIRE felons, they'll tell you "No, as a matter of corporate policy." So, what then -- work for $10/hr so that you can barely make rent in your project housing and spend your entire life a single injury or natural disaster away from financial insolvency and homelessness? That's a bleak existence to even think about, much less spend a lifetime living. The US criminal justice system is fundamentally broken, and we DO NOT AFFORD convicted felons the opportunity to have a decent life as a normal member of society.
  - igor47 3y ago
    1000x this. I only became a successful, productive member of society because a friend personally asked the CTO of a tech company to approve hiring me despite my computer crimes felony -- and the CTO took that chance. The company later went public for $B and now I am an angel investor and open source contributor etc, but I got lucky that I knew the right person at the right time. Our records follow us forever, and corporations/HR departments do not take risks like that.

bionsystem 3y ago

> There are plenty more, like me, that are capable of being responsible, productive, tax paying members of society if given the opportunity, but you cannot expect anyone to change when you just lock them up in a cage with a bunch of other criminals where there is a subculture of endless negativity. Of course they expect inmates to change, but towards even more criminality, not towards rehabilitation. This will justify them for being inmates in the first place (and thus the existence of the model) and justify them to come back later. It's a very profitable business model. The whole article is fantastic though.

freedomben 3y ago
> Of course they expect inmates to change, but towards even more criminality, not towards rehabilitation. Who is "they"?
- ebiester 3y ago
  Those that profit off of the prison system, whether it be the ecosystem of companies supporting the system or those that are employed by it.

chroma 3y ago

He was convicted of possessing 30 grams of carfentanil while on parole for his previous conviction. A lethal dose of carfentanil is 2mg, so it was at least 15,000 doses. 1. https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2017/20171011-preston-thorpe-sentence.htm https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2017/20171011-preston-thorpe-sen...

Nursie 3y ago
Fuck me, carfentanil is one of those things I read about years ago, that seemed like it would never get anywhere near the recreational drug market, because it’s just too potent and too dangerous to handle safely… Ah, I see from your link it was u-47700 he was arrested with. Certainly a potent and potentially lethal substance, but not exactly on the same scale as carfentanil. U-47700 is quoted as 7.5x the potency of morphine, fentanyl at 50-100x and carfentanil around 4000
- chroma 3y ago
  Apologies. I read a news article about him being charged with carfentanil possession and assumed the conviction referred to that. Apparently the carfentanil was found in his apartment and he was later caught with the other synthetic opioid.
  - Nursie 3y ago
    Well, god help whoever gets that in their syringe. AFAICT its main 'legit' use was to bring down large animals like elephants, fast, but that seems to have stopped in 2003. It has also probably been used as a chemical weapon in Russia! I guess it was the next logical step in the "smaller quantities of more powerful stuff are easier to smuggle" race, but I'd expect to see more dealers turning up dead from accidental exposure if it became widespread.
AdmiralAsshat 3y ago
Did you mean 30 kilograms?
- 3y ago

RecycledEle 3y ago

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deleted 3y ago

[deleted]