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I have zero interest in cigarettes though. So like, let's say I started chewing a gum and then I became addicted to the gum. I'm assuming the downside here woul

I have zero interest in cigarettes though. So like, let's say I started chewing a gum and then I became addicted to the gum. I'm assuming the downside here would be primarily withdrawal effects of not chewing the gum? It's not like it's going to be a gateway to cigarettes for me. You'll experience caffeine withdrawal too, so I'm not sure that's really a problem. From the article, > There is little evidence from the NRT literature that ‘never-smokers’ like myself are all that likely to become highly addicted, That is to say, it does not seem to present a dangerous introduction for others, assuming you mean an introduction to cigarettes.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
Indeed, there are loads of occasional-cigar smokers out there who have zero interest in smoking cigarettes, and in between the times they feel they can afford a quality cigar, simply do not smoke at all.
- nickstinemates 3y ago
  I just had my first cigar the other night at 38. Was a good experience, I look forward to next time, but it was the environment/atmosphere more than the high. I have zero interest in smoking weed or cigarettes. It's a completely different thing in my mind.
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    There is no "high" with cigars. It's just a matter of enjoying a particular aroma profile, just like eating barbecue, smelling a perfume, or burning some incense. Did you really go into smoking a cigar expecting some kind of drug experience?
    - nickstinemates 3y ago
      Nope, I went in expecting exactly what I got. It was awesome.
jtriangle 3y ago
Anecdotally, I've accidentally quit vaping several times, because I don't vape when I've caught a cold and that's coincided with me needing to buy supplies. I've gone back to it because I find it enjoyable, but, having watched my father quit smoking several times, I can't say that I've ever had withdrawals like that, or really at all. So my theory is, really, that cigarettes and tobacco in general is far more addicting and therefore far more bioactive than just consuming nicotine is.
- nannal 3y ago
  I have quit cigarettes successfully (for ~10 years now) and found it wasn't too difficult. However, I have known people who could quit indefinitely and pick it back up without issue and people who are going through rounds of quitting, returning, quitting and so forth. I personally believe there are additional elements involved that could be genetic or psychological.
  - pawelwentpawel 3y ago
    I used to both smoke and extensively used pure Nicotine (gums, sprays etc.) In my opinion, majority of the people who are stopping Nicotine (not just smoking) approach it as an incredibly hard challenge. The process is demonised and described as something that is really hard to complete. That's exactly what I would like people to think if I'd be to work in a marketing department for tobacco corporations. While there is a longer story behind it, I quit cold turkey in March this year. This time was much easier - I didn't approach it as something that is hard to do. While this might sound banal, I focused on what am I getting out of it, not what I'm loosing. Everything, from my gums to my muscles got better. Nicotine in its pure form is definitely great brain stimulant, I'm still a big fan. I just don't think it's worth the cost, both from financial and health perspective to use it often.
  - jihiggins 3y ago
    cigarette smoke also has a bunch of other stuff, including MAOIs. it's definitely not _just_ the nicotine. iirc, cigarettes also have additives to make the nicotine hit harder / cross the blood brain barrier faster, which probably doesn't help
galangalalgol 3y ago
Anecdata follows. As a never smoker I used nicotine gum during strength training workouts. I never had any urge to use it at other times. I did not find the effect very pleasant either, so while I couls see its benefit plotting my progress, ultimately I stopped using it. I do have tobacco addiction in my family history.
permo-w 3y ago
everyone's a never-smoker until they're not. the sense I got with this article is that the author started with the presumption that nicotine from sources other than smoking is basically okay and built up from there. that's not to say that he's wrong, just that it didn't feel like a rational approach
- mock-possum 3y ago
  To give an alternate perspective: smoking cigarettes is just an all around bad experience, it smells bad, it tastes bad, it hurts my throat, and for what? Light headedness, possibly with the spins? And the smell lingers it gets into everything, you basically need to change your clothes after you smoke a cigarette. I’m a non smoker period, and I can only assume this “oh everyone says they can’t get addicted to cigarettes until they start smoking” attitude can only be projection from hapless addicts. It just doesn’t work that way for me. I’ve even tried nicotine gum, just to see if maybe it’s the smoking itself that’s a turnoff - without the smell and the taste, maybe nicotine is good on its own? But it’s not - it’s the same head-spinning mild nausea that I recognize right away from cigarettes. who is this drug for? Because it’s certainly not me. Addicted to this? I literally cannot imagine it, why would I seek such a comprehensively bad experience compulsively and repeatedly? It just doesn’t compute for me.
  - permo-w 3y ago
    >I’m a non smoker period, and I can only assume this “oh everyone says they can’t get addicted to cigarettes until they start smoking” attitude can only be projection from hapless addicts. It just doesn’t work that way for me. this is a bizarre assumption. first of all, no one said that everyone who hasn't smoked has a strong propensity, what I said was that everyone who has been addicted once wasn't. I myself have very little propensity towards addiction to nicotine and do not enjoy cigarettes. that doesn't mean that I think this talk of most "never-smokers" having little propensity towards addiction makes sense. everyone who has ever been addicted to nicotine was once a "never-smoker", and probably billions of people consume nicotine every day. those numbers tell the real story
reactordev 3y ago
The withdrawal effects are more like kicking a heroin addiction.
- insanitybit 3y ago
  That doesn't sound true.
  - reactordev 3y ago
    Try it then. As someone who smoked and quit and have had friends who smoked and quit who also had heroin habits, they corroborate the difficulty. It’s a different type of struggle but the struggle is strong just the same.
    - insanitybit 3y ago
      I feel like I shouldn't have to try heroin to understand this. A solid paper on the topic would suffice.
      - reactordev 3y ago
        A simple Google search returns hundreds if not thousands of results. Here’s one for you https://academic.oup.com/ntr/article/20/9/1038/4096884 https://academic.oup.com/ntr/article/20/9/1038/4096884
        insanitybit 3y ago
        That paper does not look like it actually measures addiction, and I don't want to sort through hundreds or thousands of results... But I don't really care. It doesn't sound true but it also doesn't change anything.
      - edgyquant 3y ago
        No it wouldn’t unless you can consistently reproduce any found results among differing populations and I have serious doubts such a paper, with said follow ups, exists.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago

Indeed, there are loads of occasional-cigar smokers out there who have zero interest in smoking cigarettes, and in between the times they feel they can afford a quality cigar, simply do not smoke at all.

nickstinemates 3y ago
I just had my first cigar the other night at 38. Was a good experience, I look forward to next time, but it was the environment/atmosphere more than the high. I have zero interest in smoking weed or cigarettes. It's a completely different thing in my mind.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  There is no "high" with cigars. It's just a matter of enjoying a particular aroma profile, just like eating barbecue, smelling a perfume, or burning some incense. Did you really go into smoking a cigar expecting some kind of drug experience?
  - nickstinemates 3y ago
    Nope, I went in expecting exactly what I got. It was awesome.

jtriangle 3y ago

Anecdotally, I've accidentally quit vaping several times, because I don't vape when I've caught a cold and that's coincided with me needing to buy supplies. I've gone back to it because I find it enjoyable, but, having watched my father quit smoking several times, I can't say that I've ever had withdrawals like that, or really at all. So my theory is, really, that cigarettes and tobacco in general is far more addicting and therefore far more bioactive than just consuming nicotine is.

nannal 3y ago
I have quit cigarettes successfully (for ~10 years now) and found it wasn't too difficult. However, I have known people who could quit indefinitely and pick it back up without issue and people who are going through rounds of quitting, returning, quitting and so forth. I personally believe there are additional elements involved that could be genetic or psychological.
- pawelwentpawel 3y ago
  I used to both smoke and extensively used pure Nicotine (gums, sprays etc.) In my opinion, majority of the people who are stopping Nicotine (not just smoking) approach it as an incredibly hard challenge. The process is demonised and described as something that is really hard to complete. That's exactly what I would like people to think if I'd be to work in a marketing department for tobacco corporations. While there is a longer story behind it, I quit cold turkey in March this year. This time was much easier - I didn't approach it as something that is hard to do. While this might sound banal, I focused on what am I getting out of it, not what I'm loosing. Everything, from my gums to my muscles got better. Nicotine in its pure form is definitely great brain stimulant, I'm still a big fan. I just don't think it's worth the cost, both from financial and health perspective to use it often.
- jihiggins 3y ago
  cigarette smoke also has a bunch of other stuff, including MAOIs. it's definitely not _just_ the nicotine. iirc, cigarettes also have additives to make the nicotine hit harder / cross the blood brain barrier faster, which probably doesn't help

galangalalgol 3y ago

Anecdata follows. As a never smoker I used nicotine gum during strength training workouts. I never had any urge to use it at other times. I did not find the effect very pleasant either, so while I couls see its benefit plotting my progress, ultimately I stopped using it. I do have tobacco addiction in my family history.

permo-w 3y ago

everyone's a never-smoker until they're not. the sense I got with this article is that the author started with the presumption that nicotine from sources other than smoking is basically okay and built up from there. that's not to say that he's wrong, just that it didn't feel like a rational approach

mock-possum 3y ago
To give an alternate perspective: smoking cigarettes is just an all around bad experience, it smells bad, it tastes bad, it hurts my throat, and for what? Light headedness, possibly with the spins? And the smell lingers it gets into everything, you basically need to change your clothes after you smoke a cigarette. I’m a non smoker period, and I can only assume this “oh everyone says they can’t get addicted to cigarettes until they start smoking” attitude can only be projection from hapless addicts. It just doesn’t work that way for me. I’ve even tried nicotine gum, just to see if maybe it’s the smoking itself that’s a turnoff - without the smell and the taste, maybe nicotine is good on its own? But it’s not - it’s the same head-spinning mild nausea that I recognize right away from cigarettes. who is this drug for? Because it’s certainly not me. Addicted to this? I literally cannot imagine it, why would I seek such a comprehensively bad experience compulsively and repeatedly? It just doesn’t compute for me.
- permo-w 3y ago
  >I’m a non smoker period, and I can only assume this “oh everyone says they can’t get addicted to cigarettes until they start smoking” attitude can only be projection from hapless addicts. It just doesn’t work that way for me. this is a bizarre assumption. first of all, no one said that everyone who hasn't smoked has a strong propensity, what I said was that everyone who has been addicted once wasn't. I myself have very little propensity towards addiction to nicotine and do not enjoy cigarettes. that doesn't mean that I think this talk of most "never-smokers" having little propensity towards addiction makes sense. everyone who has ever been addicted to nicotine was once a "never-smoker", and probably billions of people consume nicotine every day. those numbers tell the real story

reactordev 3y ago

The withdrawal effects are more like kicking a heroin addiction.

insanitybit 3y ago
That doesn't sound true.
- reactordev 3y ago
  Try it then. As someone who smoked and quit and have had friends who smoked and quit who also had heroin habits, they corroborate the difficulty. It’s a different type of struggle but the struggle is strong just the same.
  - insanitybit 3y ago
    I feel like I shouldn't have to try heroin to understand this. A solid paper on the topic would suffice.
    - reactordev 3y ago
      A simple Google search returns hundreds if not thousands of results. Here’s one for you https://academic.oup.com/ntr/article/20/9/1038/4096884 https://academic.oup.com/ntr/article/20/9/1038/4096884
      - insanitybit 3y ago
        That paper does not look like it actually measures addiction, and I don't want to sort through hundreds or thousands of results... But I don't really care. It doesn't sound true but it also doesn't change anything.
    - edgyquant 3y ago
      No it wouldn’t unless you can consistently reproduce any found results among differing populations and I have serious doubts such a paper, with said follow ups, exists.