4 ms·

The Benefits of Walking Backwards

64 points by penguin_booze 3y ago

linsomniac 3y ago
I've been dabbling with spending the last 3-4 minutes of my treadmill sessions walking backwards on an incline. I haven't done enough to see results, I've done maybe 5 sessions so far. One thing that surprises me is how much it gets my heart rate up, I'll do an incline of 10 and a speed of ~2, and usually it'll keep my heartrate in the 150s. If I've just been walking rather than jogging, it'll usually go up.
amelius 3y ago
I wonder if it can make normal walking more difficult. Like when looking through a pair of glasses that flips everything upside down, after a while your brain adapts and this becomes the new normal.
- neuronerdgirl 3y ago
  Probably not. Both right side up and upside down viewing are processed in the same circuit of interpretation (eye - lateral geniculate nucleus - visual cortex). The phenomenon you are talking about occurs because control processes that "flip" your interpretation of the upside down visual field are directly altering this circuit, and thus control is required again to reset it back to right side up interpretation. By contrast, walking forward is driven by central pattern generators directly in the spinal cord [0], while backward walking is a controlled process governed by the prefrontal and motor cortices, so there is no real overlap in the systems that would cause mutual interference. 0: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11728329/#:~:text=Central%20pattern%20generators%20are%20neuronal,that%20carry%20specific%20timing%20information https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11728329/#:~:text=Central%20....
gnicholas 3y ago
> One Dutch study tested 38 participants' ability to solve a Stroop test – which uses conflicting stimuli such as the word "blue" in red letters to interfere with how quickly people respond to a prompt – whilst stepping backwards, forwards or sideways. It found that participants stepping backwards had the fastest reaction times, perhaps because their brains were already used to performing an incongruous task. I wonder if this study would replicate.
- neuronerdgirl 3y ago
  I suspect it would. There is a well-documented similar effect called the congruency sequence effect [0] in which performance on a given incongruent trial improves if the previous trial was likewise incongruent (and, interestingly, performance on a given congruent trial will degrade). The current understanding of this phenomenon is essentially that you take just a bit more time and care on the current trial after recently experiencing a more demanding trial, which would parallel the hypothesis here. 0: https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.3758/CABN.7.4.380.pdf https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.3758/CABN.7.4.380.p...
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    It’s possible. The red flags for me were (1) the small sample size and (2) the fact that they tried forward, sideways, and backwards walking. That makes it seem more like a fishing expedition. If it were pre-registered that would mitigate the second issue, of course.
    - neuronerdgirl 3y ago
      The study appears to be a part of one of the authors' dissertation which focuses on approach avoidance behaviors and their relationship to cognitive control [0]. The inclusion of sidestepping is not "fishing" but is used as a control to have participants doing a similar level of motor engagement on the task but that is neither approaching nor avoidant. The deeper hypothesis being tested is a part of the embodied cognition literature [1] which posits that not only does our cognitive system influence the state of our bodies, but that likewise the state of the body influences our cognitive state. Thus, the study aims to address whether the body being in a state of approach or avoidance influences our level of cognitive control being implemented on our assessment of other stimuli in our environment. Including sidestepping a control would absolutely have been an a priori decision with a legitimate scientific reasoning. As a dissertation and a psychology study, the small sample size is somewhat expected, and a power analysis would (i suspect) indicate that it is perfectly valid for the statistical test being used (36 subjects is pretty close to 80% power for a moderate effect size for simpler experimental designs like this, if I remember correctly). These studies are not intended to serve as a critical and seminal authority on the subject but to add evidence to the literature, which then is taken as a whole to understand the underlying phenomena. Especially in a world where grants are reserved for only the flashiest and trendiest technologies and topics and publish or perish rules the day, papers with small sample sizes are a symptom of a lack of funding for these questions and relentless demands on researchers' time and effort, and I would bet that these researchers were doing the best they could with the resources they had. I think hackernews is rather uncharitable about psychology research in these respects. As a note, this study was published in 2009 and thus likely conducted at least a year or two prior, at which point preregistration was not common for the cognitive field (and indeed it is still in its infancy). So, it is not surprising that this study was not preregistered and nor, I would argue, should it be considered a red flag. 0: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/16161138.pdf#page=82 https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/16161138.pdf#page=82 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embodied_cognition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embodied_cognition
eamon_cas 3y ago
Walking backwards let me move around the house when otherwise immobilized with tendinitis. As noted in the article there are safety concerns.
jl2718 3y ago
For most people, forward walking/running involves a slight twist of the knee that stresses the illiotibial band against the lateral aspect of the knee joint. This results in a common overuse injury in runners. When I get this, it is usually because I have just entered a relatively serious training program from relative rest, something like adding 20+ miles a week. I generally cannot walk forward at all. However, there is usually no limitation at all to my backwards walking or running, so I spend a week or two not just walking backward as necessary, but also in training, I will do backward track intervals with no IT band pain at all, until I forget about it and try turning around. Anecdotally, it improves recovery time for the IT band, but also causes the opposite problem to flare up in the MCL. Note that present tense is for convenience. It’s been a long time since I’ve run.
- virtue3 3y ago
  I had a lot of issues with my IT band back when I did marathon training / endurance sports. Mine stemmed from my quads being significantly more developed than my hamstrings / lower posterior chain. Any imbalance between the front / back of your legs/hips can cause tracking issues, which will then overload your IT band or in the case of walking backwards, your MCL. Also pressure point therapy using a lacrosse ball right into the hip attachment of the IT band was one of the few things that gave me relief. Good luck.
11235813213455 3y ago
I'm always shocked how the vast majority of people walk or run like ducks (feet non parallel)
fallinghawks 3y ago
My knees often feel strain when going in an extended downstairs or downhill, and I've found walking backwards downhill (not stairs; too risky) helps relieve that.
nabla9 3y ago
There is a general principle behind doing new stuff. Any training that moves metabolism and nervous system from homeostasis (dynamic equilibrium) to allostasis (stability through variation and predictive regulation) is good. This is known phenomenon in sports. You must cycle through different training regimes in weightlifting and endurance if you want to keep improving. Try juggling, learning an instrument, waking backwards, standing in one feet, everything seems to work for as long as you still struggling to learn. It becomes homeostatic state when it is effortless and you must increase difficulty.
- krmboya 3y ago
  And the best thing about strength training using barbells is that you can keep increasing the weight on the bar till you approach your genetic limitations assuming optimal recovery, nutrition, proper form and good programming. Keeping the body in a state of always adapting to the new stress
  - nabla9 3y ago
    >And the best thing about strength training using barbells is that you That's NOT the way to increase strength to the maximum. Eventually you plateau and improvements stop below what you could potentially do. You have to do cycles. You increase the weights day by day, then at some point you drop down to lower weights and start going up again.
    - krmboya 3y ago
      I agree. For example, when going for a long hike, you have to stop and rest regularly. Still, you need to keep moving forward to make progress
- fritzo 3y ago
  Right, the article reads like "this one weird trick", but in fact any trick will work as long as it's weird.
baumy 3y ago
Anybody who thinks they can benefit from this should definitely check out the "knees over toes" guy on YouTube [1]. Walking backward is one of the first and most basic exercises he recommends in building up what he calls "bulletproof knees". I'm about 30 and have noticed a significant increase in my overall athleticism since starting to regularly follow his recommendations, and I was fairly athletic to begin with. My parents are in their late 60s and both were having regular knee pain that they say has almost completely vanished after a few months of some of the more basic exercises as well. Longer discussion with him on walking backward: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdofViBpO-U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdofViBpO-U [1] https://www.youtube.com/@TheKneesovertoesguy/videos https://www.youtube.com/@TheKneesovertoesguy/videos
- bfors 3y ago
  It's pretty amazing to find out that you can actually improve your knees (and feet, ankles, hips, shoulders..) so they don't hurt and generally suck, even if you're not 20. +1 for the knees over toes guy programs
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  You realize this is all just yet another form of exercise. If having issues with joints, there are endless amounts of programs and workouts in the gyms, with free weights, machines, body weight, bands etc. to cover those. But the problem often is (and it seems its valid for you too) that people are extremely focused on the sport(s) of their preference, but completely ignore overall health, ie by working out muscles and stabilizing system not primarily used in their sports. Ie not many runners ever hit the free weights or machines so their upper body looks like from Auschwitz, and it would benefit them massively long term - joints last longer, overall connection with the body is stronger. Not many runners do dedicated exercises to make their knees and ankles stronger. And so on. I mean tendons and ligaments and rest of connective tissues also require focus when training, I'd say even more since it takes significantly longer to build any stamina/strength into it (so usually when starting working out muscles develop fast with connective tissues lagging behind and then folks end up with injuries since you need it all working together perfectly under serious load). Walking back is severely impractical in real life and in outdoors outright dangerous if alone, so there may be smarter ways to reach same result. But it requires a bit of thinking, dedication and discipline. Just like rest of our lives.
broast 3y ago
I practice backwards walking on incline on the treadmill at the gym, like others. I was once astounded to witness during my very first half marathon some fit young person walk the entire race backwards while eating a bag of chips. I didn't need any more inspiration than that
morninglight 3y ago
It may be beneficial, but it can also be deadly. I have known two healthy people who fell while walking backwards and struck their heads. One died and the other spent many months recovering. I'm not suggesting a helmet, but it is something to consider.
- FartyMcFarter 3y ago
  Were they doing it for exercise?
  - morninglight 3y ago
    One was in his early 50's and playing tennis with his daughter. He went back for a lob and just tripped. The other was a successful young engineer in his late 30's. He just tripped over a toolbox that was in back of him. They both hit the back of their heads, and neither had any previously known health problems or attacks of vertigo. I don't walk backwards as a rule. But I trip over all kinds of stuff (mostly the kids toys) walking forward. ..
    - FartyMcFarter 3y ago
      That sucks... The human body can be pretty fragile at times! Thanks for giving their stories.

64 points by penguin_booze 3y ago

I've been dabbling with spending the last 3-4 minutes of my treadmill sessions walking backwards on an incline. I haven't done enough to see results, I've done maybe 5 sessions so far. One thing that surprises me is how much it gets my heart rate up, I'll do an incline of 10 and a speed of ~2, and usually it'll keep my heartrate in the 150s. If I've just been walking rather than jogging, it'll usually go up.

amelius 3y ago

I wonder if it can make normal walking more difficult. Like when looking through a pair of glasses that flips everything upside down, after a while your brain adapts and this becomes the new normal.

neuronerdgirl 3y ago
Probably not. Both right side up and upside down viewing are processed in the same circuit of interpretation (eye - lateral geniculate nucleus - visual cortex). The phenomenon you are talking about occurs because control processes that "flip" your interpretation of the upside down visual field are directly altering this circuit, and thus control is required again to reset it back to right side up interpretation. By contrast, walking forward is driven by central pattern generators directly in the spinal cord [0], while backward walking is a controlled process governed by the prefrontal and motor cortices, so there is no real overlap in the systems that would cause mutual interference. 0: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11728329/#:~:text=Central%20pattern%20generators%20are%20neuronal,that%20carry%20specific%20timing%20information https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11728329/#:~:text=Central%20....

gnicholas 3y ago

> One Dutch study tested 38 participants' ability to solve a Stroop test – which uses conflicting stimuli such as the word "blue" in red letters to interfere with how quickly people respond to a prompt – whilst stepping backwards, forwards or sideways. It found that participants stepping backwards had the fastest reaction times, perhaps because their brains were already used to performing an incongruous task. I wonder if this study would replicate.

neuronerdgirl 3y ago
I suspect it would. There is a well-documented similar effect called the congruency sequence effect [0] in which performance on a given incongruent trial improves if the previous trial was likewise incongruent (and, interestingly, performance on a given congruent trial will degrade). The current understanding of this phenomenon is essentially that you take just a bit more time and care on the current trial after recently experiencing a more demanding trial, which would parallel the hypothesis here. 0: https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.3758/CABN.7.4.380.pdf https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.3758/CABN.7.4.380.p...
- gnicholas 3y ago
  It’s possible. The red flags for me were (1) the small sample size and (2) the fact that they tried forward, sideways, and backwards walking. That makes it seem more like a fishing expedition. If it were pre-registered that would mitigate the second issue, of course.
  - neuronerdgirl 3y ago
    The study appears to be a part of one of the authors' dissertation which focuses on approach avoidance behaviors and their relationship to cognitive control [0]. The inclusion of sidestepping is not "fishing" but is used as a control to have participants doing a similar level of motor engagement on the task but that is neither approaching nor avoidant. The deeper hypothesis being tested is a part of the embodied cognition literature [1] which posits that not only does our cognitive system influence the state of our bodies, but that likewise the state of the body influences our cognitive state. Thus, the study aims to address whether the body being in a state of approach or avoidance influences our level of cognitive control being implemented on our assessment of other stimuli in our environment. Including sidestepping a control would absolutely have been an a priori decision with a legitimate scientific reasoning. As a dissertation and a psychology study, the small sample size is somewhat expected, and a power analysis would (i suspect) indicate that it is perfectly valid for the statistical test being used (36 subjects is pretty close to 80% power for a moderate effect size for simpler experimental designs like this, if I remember correctly). These studies are not intended to serve as a critical and seminal authority on the subject but to add evidence to the literature, which then is taken as a whole to understand the underlying phenomena. Especially in a world where grants are reserved for only the flashiest and trendiest technologies and topics and publish or perish rules the day, papers with small sample sizes are a symptom of a lack of funding for these questions and relentless demands on researchers' time and effort, and I would bet that these researchers were doing the best they could with the resources they had. I think hackernews is rather uncharitable about psychology research in these respects. As a note, this study was published in 2009 and thus likely conducted at least a year or two prior, at which point preregistration was not common for the cognitive field (and indeed it is still in its infancy). So, it is not surprising that this study was not preregistered and nor, I would argue, should it be considered a red flag. 0: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/16161138.pdf#page=82 https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/16161138.pdf#page=82 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embodied_cognition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embodied_cognition

eamon_cas 3y ago

Walking backwards let me move around the house when otherwise immobilized with tendinitis. As noted in the article there are safety concerns.

jl2718 3y ago

For most people, forward walking/running involves a slight twist of the knee that stresses the illiotibial band against the lateral aspect of the knee joint. This results in a common overuse injury in runners. When I get this, it is usually because I have just entered a relatively serious training program from relative rest, something like adding 20+ miles a week. I generally cannot walk forward at all. However, there is usually no limitation at all to my backwards walking or running, so I spend a week or two not just walking backward as necessary, but also in training, I will do backward track intervals with no IT band pain at all, until I forget about it and try turning around. Anecdotally, it improves recovery time for the IT band, but also causes the opposite problem to flare up in the MCL. Note that present tense is for convenience. It’s been a long time since I’ve run.

virtue3 3y ago
I had a lot of issues with my IT band back when I did marathon training / endurance sports. Mine stemmed from my quads being significantly more developed than my hamstrings / lower posterior chain. Any imbalance between the front / back of your legs/hips can cause tracking issues, which will then overload your IT band or in the case of walking backwards, your MCL. Also pressure point therapy using a lacrosse ball right into the hip attachment of the IT band was one of the few things that gave me relief. Good luck.

11235813213455 3y ago

I'm always shocked how the vast majority of people walk or run like ducks (feet non parallel)

fallinghawks 3y ago

My knees often feel strain when going in an extended downstairs or downhill, and I've found walking backwards downhill (not stairs; too risky) helps relieve that.

nabla9 3y ago

There is a general principle behind doing new stuff. Any training that moves metabolism and nervous system from homeostasis (dynamic equilibrium) to allostasis (stability through variation and predictive regulation) is good. This is known phenomenon in sports. You must cycle through different training regimes in weightlifting and endurance if you want to keep improving. Try juggling, learning an instrument, waking backwards, standing in one feet, everything seems to work for as long as you still struggling to learn. It becomes homeostatic state when it is effortless and you must increase difficulty.

krmboya 3y ago
And the best thing about strength training using barbells is that you can keep increasing the weight on the bar till you approach your genetic limitations assuming optimal recovery, nutrition, proper form and good programming. Keeping the body in a state of always adapting to the new stress
- nabla9 3y ago
  >And the best thing about strength training using barbells is that you That's NOT the way to increase strength to the maximum. Eventually you plateau and improvements stop below what you could potentially do. You have to do cycles. You increase the weights day by day, then at some point you drop down to lower weights and start going up again.
  - krmboya 3y ago
    I agree. For example, when going for a long hike, you have to stop and rest regularly. Still, you need to keep moving forward to make progress
fritzo 3y ago
Right, the article reads like "this one weird trick", but in fact any trick will work as long as it's weird.

baumy 3y ago

Anybody who thinks they can benefit from this should definitely check out the "knees over toes" guy on YouTube [1]. Walking backward is one of the first and most basic exercises he recommends in building up what he calls "bulletproof knees". I'm about 30 and have noticed a significant increase in my overall athleticism since starting to regularly follow his recommendations, and I was fairly athletic to begin with. My parents are in their late 60s and both were having regular knee pain that they say has almost completely vanished after a few months of some of the more basic exercises as well. Longer discussion with him on walking backward: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdofViBpO-U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdofViBpO-U [1] https://www.youtube.com/@TheKneesovertoesguy/videos https://www.youtube.com/@TheKneesovertoesguy/videos

bfors 3y ago
It's pretty amazing to find out that you can actually improve your knees (and feet, ankles, hips, shoulders..) so they don't hurt and generally suck, even if you're not 20. +1 for the knees over toes guy programs
saiya-jin 3y ago
You realize this is all just yet another form of exercise. If having issues with joints, there are endless amounts of programs and workouts in the gyms, with free weights, machines, body weight, bands etc. to cover those. But the problem often is (and it seems its valid for you too) that people are extremely focused on the sport(s) of their preference, but completely ignore overall health, ie by working out muscles and stabilizing system not primarily used in their sports. Ie not many runners ever hit the free weights or machines so their upper body looks like from Auschwitz, and it would benefit them massively long term - joints last longer, overall connection with the body is stronger. Not many runners do dedicated exercises to make their knees and ankles stronger. And so on. I mean tendons and ligaments and rest of connective tissues also require focus when training, I'd say even more since it takes significantly longer to build any stamina/strength into it (so usually when starting working out muscles develop fast with connective tissues lagging behind and then folks end up with injuries since you need it all working together perfectly under serious load). Walking back is severely impractical in real life and in outdoors outright dangerous if alone, so there may be smarter ways to reach same result. But it requires a bit of thinking, dedication and discipline. Just like rest of our lives.

broast 3y ago

I practice backwards walking on incline on the treadmill at the gym, like others. I was once astounded to witness during my very first half marathon some fit young person walk the entire race backwards while eating a bag of chips. I didn't need any more inspiration than that

morninglight 3y ago

It may be beneficial, but it can also be deadly. I have known two healthy people who fell while walking backwards and struck their heads. One died and the other spent many months recovering. I'm not suggesting a helmet, but it is something to consider.

FartyMcFarter 3y ago
Were they doing it for exercise?
- morninglight 3y ago
  One was in his early 50's and playing tennis with his daughter. He went back for a lob and just tripped. The other was a successful young engineer in his late 30's. He just tripped over a toolbox that was in back of him. They both hit the back of their heads, and neither had any previously known health problems or attacks of vertigo. I don't walk backwards as a rule. But I trip over all kinds of stuff (mostly the kids toys) walking forward. ..
  - FartyMcFarter 3y ago
    That sucks... The human body can be pretty fragile at times! Thanks for giving their stories.