7 ms·

You think KDE is a clusterfuck?! When was the last time you used GNOME? File Roller still doesn't support drag'n'drop in Wayland; issue now open for over 5 year

You think KDE is a clusterfuck?! When was the last time you used GNOME? File Roller still doesn't support drag'n'drop in Wayland; issue now open for over 5 years. It pains me to see them throwing money at the wall instead of creating dedicated jobs, paying (German) engineers to fix bugs and develop long needed features. Given how low German wages are, they could pay around 10 engineers for a full year with that money.

Hamuko 3y ago
Reading these Linux DE threads always makes me glad that the only desktop Linux I use is SteamOS.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Which SteamOS? The old Debian one fort he cancelled SteamBox, or the new Arch one for the Steam Deck?
  - Hamuko 3y ago
    The Arch one for the Steam Deck, which makes it really easy to forget that it's even Linux.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      Ok, but that's just KDE, no? Do you use it in desktop mode?
      - qwytw 3y ago
        I doubt that many people use the desktop mode on it to be fair.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- xcv123 3y ago
  So you are using KDE
  - Hamuko 3y ago
    Pretty sure that it's not KDE outside of the desktop mode considering that the SteamOS and its GUI is proprietary and KDE is GPL.
    - xcv123 3y ago
      Of course Steam itself is not KDE Steam runs on KDE on SteamOS
      - Hamuko 3y ago
        Can't find any "kde" or "plasma" references in the process list under normal operation. It's only after you reboot into the desktop mode that you start seeing process names like "plasmashell", "kded5", "startplasma-x11" and so on. I'm not entirely convinced that using SteamOS can really be counted as "using KDE" in any way.
        seba_dos1 3y ago
        > in any way Well, I wouldn't make that statement so strong. KDE Plasma is the default desktop environment on SteamOS, it's just that it doesn't boot into its desktop environment by default (but you're two buttons away from switching into it).
      - seba_dos1 3y ago
        It does not, unless running in desktop mode. In gaming mode, Steam runs on top of gamescope.
      - nottheengineer 3y ago
        Desktop mode is KDE on X. In that case your comment is true, steam will just run on KDE. Game mode is a wayland session with gamescope as a WM, but it isn't controlled directly by the user. The steam client controls the WM and exposes those controls to you through menus and handles stuff like notifications and being a driver for the controller, so you could call it a DE in game mode.
- ekianjo 3y ago
  SteamOS is just a slow release Arch with KdE on top so your comment says what we need to know
  - nottheengineer 3y ago
    And it just works without any tinkering. Maybe that part is more important than the choice of DE. I'm partial to KDE myself, but honestly anything with a sensible panel is usable.
    - criddell 3y ago
      > I’m partial to KDE myself, but honestly anything with a sensible panel is usable I’m the same! I’ve never understood how people have such strong emotions when it comes to a desktop environment. They all (including Windows, macOS, and even iPadOS) feel like they are good enough to me and I enjoy switching to something different once in a while.
    - trelane 3y ago
      > just works without any tinkering Yes. It'samazing how much better Linux runs when the hardware vendor actually supports Linux. It also helps that the Steam Deck has a narrower Mission than a desktop computer.
- morsch 3y ago
  I just switched my work computer from a Linux laptop running Gnome (on Wayland, with working drag and drop) to a MacBook Air M2. The hardware is a great improvement, the desktop environment is not.
  - microtonal 3y ago
    I think it’s also a matter of getting used to it. I used Linux from 1994-2007 and Mac since. I had some Linux desktop excursions in between and I always come back surprised how broken the Linux desktop experience is. Let alone there would be something great like Shortcat or Raycast app menu search. The only thing that is annoying in macOS is the lack of good tiling, but there are good third party options that add tiling.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - dingi 3y ago
    Same here. Recently moved to an M2 pro from Gnome. Mac desktop seems like a downgrade to me.
- Gigachad 3y ago
  I’m not sure there is a piece of software in existence that doesn’t have a group of angry HN users posting about their pet bug that no one else has heard of.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    From cars to microwaves to soldering irons, if it's got software on it, there's a bug in the code. https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/
- tasuki 3y ago
  Yes it could always be better. I've been using Linux as my primary desktop environment for 19 years. It's unbelievable how little I know about Linux these days. Things just work!
- dEnigma 3y ago
  I wouldn't attach too much weight to negative comments. People love to complain, and on the other hand those who are perfectly content often don't feel the need to advertise that. That is not to say that Linux DEs are perfect, mind you, but maybe not as bad as comments on HN would suggest.
  - trealira 3y ago
    Yeah, I use GNOME on my laptop every day, and I say it's pretty good. Things "just work" enough for me to focus on doing my work or enjoying myself without having to worry about the DE, and I like the defaults, mostly; it's not just a matter of convenience. And the keyboard shortcuts and mousepad gestures on GNOME are great as well. But from the way GP complained you'd think the Linux desktop were ruined.
- darkwater 3y ago
  If it's only for that, don't worry, that's also a steaming pile of s... /s
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  And reading any HN thread about Windows or macOS makes me glad I'm not using them.
mmoll 3y ago
German wages are low? Are you serious?
- w4rh4wk5 3y ago
  Yes, talking about the IT sector here. I am from Austria, it's about the same over here. See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36416158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36416158
- moffkalast 3y ago
  US tech wages for a single position are probably on average more than the typical EU tech company makes in total revenue per year. 60k is like a god tier wage here.
  - pinkgolem 3y ago
    The duck? Are you living in the same Germany as I am?
  - mr_mitm 3y ago
    That's not god tier, it's pretty average: https://www.stepstone.de/gehalt/Software-Developer.html https://www.stepstone.de/gehalt/Software-Developer.html It'd be low for a senior dev: https://www.stepstone.de/gehalt/Senior-Software-Entwickler-in.html https://www.stepstone.de/gehalt/Senior-Software-Entwickler-i...
  - rcbdev 3y ago
    60k is very average for someone with 3-4y experience in Vienna and our salaries are much lower than in Germany. You should find another offer. Unless you're talking about net income, then it is truly god-tier...
winter_blue 3y ago
> File Roller still doesn't support drag'n'drop in Wayland Fwiw Wayland is a bit of a disaster, see: https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277 https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d... There was an HN thread on this, but it was flagged: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38210694 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38210694
- boudin 3y ago
  This page is mostly a bunch of lies and shows little understanding of what wayland is and what it is not. It should definitely be flagged
  - ewuhic 3y ago
    For someone as clueless as me, would you care addressing them all one by one? That would be more than welcome.
    - sph 3y ago
      Use the search bar at the bottom. Every week we have a new Linux post with 200 comments of complaints about Wayland. Reddit, Phoronix, the entire internet has people complaining about Wayland. It's really not hard to find them.
    - jdiff 3y ago
      Time's too valuable to make that worthwhile, especially when a large amount of them boil down to: Wayland is not X and tools designed for interfacing with X-specific details will not work on Wayland without modification.
      - account42 3y ago
        X-specific details here include being in control of your own computer.
grey_earthling 3y ago
File Roller isn't a GNOME app: https://apps.gnome.org/ https://apps.gnome.org/
- solarkraft 3y ago
  What is it then, part of GTK? It's certainly a core part of a Gnome desktop.
  - grey_earthling 3y ago
    No, it isn't a core part of the GNOME desktop. It's not in the Core Apps list at https://apps.gnome.org/ https://apps.gnome.org/. It's just an app that describes itself as being ”for GNOME”.
- cxr 3y ago
  "An archive manager for GNOME." <https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/file-roller/ https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/file-roller/> <https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/FileRoller https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/FileRoller>
  - grey_earthling 3y ago
    Historically it was a GNOME app, but it isn't any more. All apps that are currently part of GNOME are listed at https://apps.gnome.org https://apps.gnome.org; File Roller isn't there.
  - NekkoDroid 3y ago
    To my understanding it is a GNOME app, but it isn't a core GNOME app. Meaning it isn't something that would be shipped in a "GNOME" package group.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - grey_earthling 3y ago
sph 3y ago
> File Roller still doesn't support drag'n'drop in Wayland Neither does KDE Ark on Wayland. Tested yesterday.
- ColonelPhantom 3y ago
  Maybe it depends on what you're dragging to? Dragging from Ark to Dolphin works fine on my Wayland machines.

Hamuko 3y ago

Reading these Linux DE threads always makes me glad that the only desktop Linux I use is SteamOS.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Which SteamOS? The old Debian one fort he cancelled SteamBox, or the new Arch one for the Steam Deck?
- Hamuko 3y ago
  The Arch one for the Steam Deck, which makes it really easy to forget that it's even Linux.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Ok, but that's just KDE, no? Do you use it in desktop mode?
    - qwytw 3y ago
      I doubt that many people use the desktop mode on it to be fair.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
xcv123 3y ago
So you are using KDE
- Hamuko 3y ago
  Pretty sure that it's not KDE outside of the desktop mode considering that the SteamOS and its GUI is proprietary and KDE is GPL.
  - xcv123 3y ago
    Of course Steam itself is not KDE Steam runs on KDE on SteamOS
    - Hamuko 3y ago
      Can't find any "kde" or "plasma" references in the process list under normal operation. It's only after you reboot into the desktop mode that you start seeing process names like "plasmashell", "kded5", "startplasma-x11" and so on. I'm not entirely convinced that using SteamOS can really be counted as "using KDE" in any way.
      - seba_dos1 3y ago
        > in any way Well, I wouldn't make that statement so strong. KDE Plasma is the default desktop environment on SteamOS, it's just that it doesn't boot into its desktop environment by default (but you're two buttons away from switching into it).
    - seba_dos1 3y ago
      It does not, unless running in desktop mode. In gaming mode, Steam runs on top of gamescope.
    - nottheengineer 3y ago
      Desktop mode is KDE on X. In that case your comment is true, steam will just run on KDE. Game mode is a wayland session with gamescope as a WM, but it isn't controlled directly by the user. The steam client controls the WM and exposes those controls to you through menus and handles stuff like notifications and being a driver for the controller, so you could call it a DE in game mode.
ekianjo 3y ago
SteamOS is just a slow release Arch with KdE on top so your comment says what we need to know
- nottheengineer 3y ago
  And it just works without any tinkering. Maybe that part is more important than the choice of DE. I'm partial to KDE myself, but honestly anything with a sensible panel is usable.
  - criddell 3y ago
    > I’m partial to KDE myself, but honestly anything with a sensible panel is usable I’m the same! I’ve never understood how people have such strong emotions when it comes to a desktop environment. They all (including Windows, macOS, and even iPadOS) feel like they are good enough to me and I enjoy switching to something different once in a while.
  - trelane 3y ago
    > just works without any tinkering Yes. It'samazing how much better Linux runs when the hardware vendor actually supports Linux. It also helps that the Steam Deck has a narrower Mission than a desktop computer.
morsch 3y ago
I just switched my work computer from a Linux laptop running Gnome (on Wayland, with working drag and drop) to a MacBook Air M2. The hardware is a great improvement, the desktop environment is not.
- microtonal 3y ago
  I think it’s also a matter of getting used to it. I used Linux from 1994-2007 and Mac since. I had some Linux desktop excursions in between and I always come back surprised how broken the Linux desktop experience is. Let alone there would be something great like Shortcat or Raycast app menu search. The only thing that is annoying in macOS is the lack of good tiling, but there are good third party options that add tiling.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dingi 3y ago
  Same here. Recently moved to an M2 pro from Gnome. Mac desktop seems like a downgrade to me.
Gigachad 3y ago
I’m not sure there is a piece of software in existence that doesn’t have a group of angry HN users posting about their pet bug that no one else has heard of.
- fragmede 3y ago
  From cars to microwaves to soldering irons, if it's got software on it, there's a bug in the code. https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/
tasuki 3y ago
Yes it could always be better. I've been using Linux as my primary desktop environment for 19 years. It's unbelievable how little I know about Linux these days. Things just work!
dEnigma 3y ago
I wouldn't attach too much weight to negative comments. People love to complain, and on the other hand those who are perfectly content often don't feel the need to advertise that. That is not to say that Linux DEs are perfect, mind you, but maybe not as bad as comments on HN would suggest.
- trealira 3y ago
  Yeah, I use GNOME on my laptop every day, and I say it's pretty good. Things "just work" enough for me to focus on doing my work or enjoying myself without having to worry about the DE, and I like the defaults, mostly; it's not just a matter of convenience. And the keyboard shortcuts and mousepad gestures on GNOME are great as well. But from the way GP complained you'd think the Linux desktop were ruined.
darkwater 3y ago
If it's only for that, don't worry, that's also a steaming pile of s... /s
yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
And reading any HN thread about Windows or macOS makes me glad I'm not using them.

mmoll 3y ago

German wages are low? Are you serious?

w4rh4wk5 3y ago
Yes, talking about the IT sector here. I am from Austria, it's about the same over here. See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36416158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36416158
moffkalast 3y ago
US tech wages for a single position are probably on average more than the typical EU tech company makes in total revenue per year. 60k is like a god tier wage here.
- pinkgolem 3y ago
  The duck? Are you living in the same Germany as I am?
- mr_mitm 3y ago
  That's not god tier, it's pretty average: https://www.stepstone.de/gehalt/Software-Developer.html https://www.stepstone.de/gehalt/Software-Developer.html It'd be low for a senior dev: https://www.stepstone.de/gehalt/Senior-Software-Entwickler-in.html https://www.stepstone.de/gehalt/Senior-Software-Entwickler-i...
- rcbdev 3y ago
  60k is very average for someone with 3-4y experience in Vienna and our salaries are much lower than in Germany. You should find another offer. Unless you're talking about net income, then it is truly god-tier...

winter_blue 3y ago

> File Roller still doesn't support drag'n'drop in Wayland Fwiw Wayland is a bit of a disaster, see: https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277 https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d... There was an HN thread on this, but it was flagged: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38210694 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38210694

boudin 3y ago
This page is mostly a bunch of lies and shows little understanding of what wayland is and what it is not. It should definitely be flagged
- ewuhic 3y ago
  For someone as clueless as me, would you care addressing them all one by one? That would be more than welcome.
  - sph 3y ago
    Use the search bar at the bottom. Every week we have a new Linux post with 200 comments of complaints about Wayland. Reddit, Phoronix, the entire internet has people complaining about Wayland. It's really not hard to find them.
  - jdiff 3y ago
    Time's too valuable to make that worthwhile, especially when a large amount of them boil down to: Wayland is not X and tools designed for interfacing with X-specific details will not work on Wayland without modification.
    - account42 3y ago
      X-specific details here include being in control of your own computer.

grey_earthling 3y ago

File Roller isn't a GNOME app: https://apps.gnome.org/ https://apps.gnome.org/

solarkraft 3y ago
What is it then, part of GTK? It's certainly a core part of a Gnome desktop.
- grey_earthling 3y ago
  No, it isn't a core part of the GNOME desktop. It's not in the Core Apps list at https://apps.gnome.org/ https://apps.gnome.org/. It's just an app that describes itself as being ”for GNOME”.
cxr 3y ago
"An archive manager for GNOME." <https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/file-roller/ https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/file-roller/> <https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/FileRoller https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/FileRoller>
- grey_earthling 3y ago
  Historically it was a GNOME app, but it isn't any more. All apps that are currently part of GNOME are listed at https://apps.gnome.org https://apps.gnome.org; File Roller isn't there.
- NekkoDroid 3y ago
  To my understanding it is a GNOME app, but it isn't a core GNOME app. Meaning it isn't something that would be shipped in a "GNOME" package group.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - grey_earthling 3y ago

sph 3y ago

> File Roller still doesn't support drag'n'drop in Wayland Neither does KDE Ark on Wayland. Tested yesterday.

ColonelPhantom 3y ago
Maybe it depends on what you're dragging to? Dragging from Ark to Dolphin works fine on my Wayland machines.