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The summary seems to be that we need more robots in our factories. That seems reasonable to me though I do wonder if some of the comparisons to Europe are misl

The summary seems to be that we need more robots in our factories. That seems reasonable to me though I do wonder if some of the comparisons to Europe are misleading given that the US is in a very different place demographically.

tetris11 3y ago
> very different place demographically Like the US, Europe is diverse and large parts of it not at all homogenous
- simbolit 3y ago
  Very true. Tho, we also have to acknowledge that "moving to the other side of the continent, because of jobs and housing" is much more common in the us than in Europe. Edit: My child comments make some very good points which me, living in a rich country, didn't fully consider. I think it's still very different, but not as different as my comment makes it out to be.
  - thriftwy 3y ago
    A huge number of Poles and Latvians moved to UK for better opportunities. It is less distance as crow flies but way more cultural difference distance.
  - tormeh 3y ago
    From one rich country to another, yes, not at all common. But the EU consists of both really rich and really poor countries. Moving from a poor country to a rich one for a job is rather common, especially if the two countries are close, like Poland and Germany. More mobile remote workers occasionally make the trip in reverse for CoL (and weather) reasons.
    - nicolaslem 3y ago
      Foreigner living in Poland here, I feel that qualifying Poland as a "poor country" is kind of dated and less true with each passing year.
      - lm28469 3y ago
        Germany's GDP is 6x Poland's. The average salary in Germany is twice as high as in Poland. Minimum wage is more than twice. It's not a third world country but the person you're replying to is right, Polish workers come to Germany by the thousands every day, virtually no Germans go to Poland for this reason Expat life is always good anywhere east of Berlin, you probably don't live the typical polish life. I also have a great time when I stay in Czech republic and Slovakia, but the locals make like 25% of my wage on average
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >The average salary in Germany is twice as high as in Poland. And the average Pole owns 2x more housing than the average German (number I made up for exemplification) who's most likely gonna be a rentoid for life. From what I noticed Poland (and Czechia) are still an attractive place for skilled migration from the EU working in the service sectors, as the constant growth and low-ish taxes and CoL, make it a better place for building wealth and buying housing than Germany. On the other hand, Germany is a better palce if you're on minimum wage unskilled style jobs and/or will depend on state support to live, as the German state is quite generous with the poor. My point is they're both attractive, just for different demographics.
        simbolit 3y ago
        So rich people should move to Poland, poor people to Germany? (offer valid for eu citizens only, terms and conditions may apply.)
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Rich people have it good everywhere, they probably don't move to Poland to enjoy their wealth but more like Monaco, Switzerland, Mallorca, Miami, Malibu, etc. What I was talking about was skilled workers in the service sectors (IT, etc), which are definitely not rich, but 100% working class. Like it or not, most wealthless working class people want to build wealth, especially with the ever increasing wealth inequality that no government wants to tackle, and some countries are better than others for that purpose and for different workers/professions, so it's normal that people will go where that proces is easier depending on their profession. Some countries have very generous social nets at the expense of high taxes and low growth, making wealth building impossible for the wealthless newcomers, other countries have low safety nets but low taxes and better growth opportunities for the skilled and ambitious workers who are into buildings wealth. Different strokes for different folks.
    - anovikov 3y ago
      As another commenter says, Poland is not at all a "poor country" anymore, and it's migration balance has been positive for the last 7 years or so, including a (slight) positive immigration of native Poles into Poland. I.e. people who left when Poland was indeed poor, are returning in larger numbers than those of new emigrants.
      - simbolit 3y ago
        The eu-wide GDP ranks are (from the bottom): * Albania * Bulgaria * Romania * Croatia * Hungary * Poland <<< * Greece * Latvia * .... So, while all of these are 'upper-middle income', relative to other EU countries, Poland is 22/27. If you look at Europe as a continent, then Ukraine and Moldova combined have less than half the polish GDP. It's all relative, and "poor" even more so. Thanks for the info on the migration balance, tho!
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Raw GDP numbers don't mean much as they don't always translate to citizen welfare and citizen wealth. Just because there are some major companies in a country, experts at extracting wealth from the global economy, it'll push the GDP up, but that doesn't mean you'll necessarily get to see any of that money.
        anovikov 3y ago
        That's an outdated rating. Poland is now ahead of Latvia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Greece, and Portugal. West-East divide between European countries almost does not exist anymore. Czechia is richer than Spain, Slovenia is dead close to UK. Where we had like 3x gap 30 years ago there's at most a 1.4x gap. Poorest: Portugal vs Bulgaria. Richest: Denmark to Slovenia. And groups already intersect. "Eastern Europe" the way it lives in public imagination, within the EU, only exists in rural Bulgaria and some of the poorest (mostly Eastern) parts of Romania. There, it is mostly due to the ethnic composition of population and will probably always stay that way.
        tormeh 3y ago

tetris11 3y ago

> very different place demographically Like the US, Europe is diverse and large parts of it not at all homogenous

simbolit 3y ago
Very true. Tho, we also have to acknowledge that "moving to the other side of the continent, because of jobs and housing" is much more common in the us than in Europe. Edit: My child comments make some very good points which me, living in a rich country, didn't fully consider. I think it's still very different, but not as different as my comment makes it out to be.
- thriftwy 3y ago
  A huge number of Poles and Latvians moved to UK for better opportunities. It is less distance as crow flies but way more cultural difference distance.
- tormeh 3y ago
  From one rich country to another, yes, not at all common. But the EU consists of both really rich and really poor countries. Moving from a poor country to a rich one for a job is rather common, especially if the two countries are close, like Poland and Germany. More mobile remote workers occasionally make the trip in reverse for CoL (and weather) reasons.
  - nicolaslem 3y ago
    Foreigner living in Poland here, I feel that qualifying Poland as a "poor country" is kind of dated and less true with each passing year.
    - lm28469 3y ago
      Germany's GDP is 6x Poland's. The average salary in Germany is twice as high as in Poland. Minimum wage is more than twice. It's not a third world country but the person you're replying to is right, Polish workers come to Germany by the thousands every day, virtually no Germans go to Poland for this reason Expat life is always good anywhere east of Berlin, you probably don't live the typical polish life. I also have a great time when I stay in Czech republic and Slovakia, but the locals make like 25% of my wage on average
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >The average salary in Germany is twice as high as in Poland. And the average Pole owns 2x more housing than the average German (number I made up for exemplification) who's most likely gonna be a rentoid for life. From what I noticed Poland (and Czechia) are still an attractive place for skilled migration from the EU working in the service sectors, as the constant growth and low-ish taxes and CoL, make it a better place for building wealth and buying housing than Germany. On the other hand, Germany is a better palce if you're on minimum wage unskilled style jobs and/or will depend on state support to live, as the German state is quite generous with the poor. My point is they're both attractive, just for different demographics.
        simbolit 3y ago
        So rich people should move to Poland, poor people to Germany? (offer valid for eu citizens only, terms and conditions may apply.)
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Rich people have it good everywhere, they probably don't move to Poland to enjoy their wealth but more like Monaco, Switzerland, Mallorca, Miami, Malibu, etc. What I was talking about was skilled workers in the service sectors (IT, etc), which are definitely not rich, but 100% working class. Like it or not, most wealthless working class people want to build wealth, especially with the ever increasing wealth inequality that no government wants to tackle, and some countries are better than others for that purpose and for different workers/professions, so it's normal that people will go where that proces is easier depending on their profession. Some countries have very generous social nets at the expense of high taxes and low growth, making wealth building impossible for the wealthless newcomers, other countries have low safety nets but low taxes and better growth opportunities for the skilled and ambitious workers who are into buildings wealth. Different strokes for different folks.
  - anovikov 3y ago
    As another commenter says, Poland is not at all a "poor country" anymore, and it's migration balance has been positive for the last 7 years or so, including a (slight) positive immigration of native Poles into Poland. I.e. people who left when Poland was indeed poor, are returning in larger numbers than those of new emigrants.
    - simbolit 3y ago
      The eu-wide GDP ranks are (from the bottom): * Albania * Bulgaria * Romania * Croatia * Hungary * Poland <<< * Greece * Latvia * .... So, while all of these are 'upper-middle income', relative to other EU countries, Poland is 22/27. If you look at Europe as a continent, then Ukraine and Moldova combined have less than half the polish GDP. It's all relative, and "poor" even more so. Thanks for the info on the migration balance, tho!
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Raw GDP numbers don't mean much as they don't always translate to citizen welfare and citizen wealth. Just because there are some major companies in a country, experts at extracting wealth from the global economy, it'll push the GDP up, but that doesn't mean you'll necessarily get to see any of that money.
      - anovikov 3y ago
        That's an outdated rating. Poland is now ahead of Latvia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Greece, and Portugal. West-East divide between European countries almost does not exist anymore. Czechia is richer than Spain, Slovenia is dead close to UK. Where we had like 3x gap 30 years ago there's at most a 1.4x gap. Poorest: Portugal vs Bulgaria. Richest: Denmark to Slovenia. And groups already intersect. "Eastern Europe" the way it lives in public imagination, within the EU, only exists in rural Bulgaria and some of the poorest (mostly Eastern) parts of Romania. There, it is mostly due to the ethnic composition of population and will probably always stay that way.
        tormeh 3y ago