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Apple Snubs Firm That Discovered Mac Botnet
- mrich 15y agoHow long will it take to change the mindset at Apple to think about security before shipping? Microsoft did their job years ago, now Apple has to follow. How long will it take for Mac users to learn that viruses are indeed a threat on all kinds of computers, not just PCs? I can only hope Apple will take a more active role in educating them.
- hej 15y agoI'm guessing Apple's plan involves Gatekeeper (coming soon) and not shipping OS X with Java and Flash by default (already implemented, but installing both is ridicoulously easy). I'm not sure how teneable and wise that is, though.
- LinaLauneBaer 15y agoI agree - but there is a catch: Gatekeeper will help to prevent things like that. The default mode in Mountain Lion is only to allow to run apps downloaded from the App Store and/or signed by a developer whose certificate can be revoked by Apple at any time. This will prevent at least the spreading of malicious software components after it has been discovered. And this is the point... Apple needs to react faster and malicious software has to be detected first - otherwise a revoking system makes little sense...
- hessenwolf 15y agoSo the default mode of the entire operating system is to only let you install software approved, for a fee, by Apple? Go business. Am I understanding correctly?
- coob 15y agoNo, Developer IDs are free.
- yusefnapora 15y agoNot quite. You can get a free certificate for non-appstore apps. Apps signed with the free cert aren't reviewed or endorsed by Apple, but they can revoke the certificate after the fact if they find that you've been publishing malicious apps. The Mountain Lion default allows signed apps only, both appstore and non-appstore. You can also set it to 'appstore only' or 'anything goes'.
- thoradam 15y ago> and not shipping OS X with Java That won't help the people who actually use Java on OS X. It would be better to allow Oracle to manage the updates for Java on OS X, the vulnerability that Flashback abused was patched by Oracle back in February.
- meepmorp 15y agoWhich, I believe, is the plan in the longer term. Apple is going to leave Java platform development to Oracle - there was a spate of "Apple eliminating Java from OS X" articles back when it was announced (last year?)
- pooriaazimi 15y agoIt was November 2010: Oracle and Apple announce OpenJDK Project for Java on Mac OS X (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/11/12/oracle_and_apple_announce_openjdk_for_java_on_mac_os_x.html http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/11/12/oracle_and_app...)
- meepmorp 15y agoThanks for being my lazy web.
- dubya 15y agoIs Apple getting dinged for Java installation being too easy? That seems pretty easy to fix. Having Java on by default in Safari was a bad choice (just like disk images and packages last year). I hope they'll do a scan and remove with Software Update soon, if that's possible.
- rbarooah 15y agoWhat do you think Microsoft has done that Apple has not?
- mrich 15y agoMicrosoft had its security Waterloo 6-8 years ago, and they have dramatically improved and changed their development practices since then. I once read that they have one whole building of engineers dedicated to security (sorry cannot find the link anymore). Reports involving security breaches of Apple products often show Apple as someone who feels wronged and would rather try to kill the messenger than fix the problem. To their credit, they appear to be looking for fixes that cause the least harm to their users. But to me they appear to be operating on very limited manpower/budget for this so they have to prioritize. An example: Apple didn't fix a flaw on Windows iTunes for 3 years because it wasn't a priority, and intelligence software companies sold software based on this hole - imagine if Microsoft did this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8912714/Apple-iTunes-flaw-allowed-government-spying-for-3-years.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8912714/Apple-iT...
- rhplus 15y ago2002 was the start of Microsoft's major security rethink, prompted in part by exploits like the Code Red worm. For a short period it wasn't a building of engineers, but the whole engineering staff that stopped development and focused on security code reviews and bug fixes[1]. One of the outcomes was the Security Development Lifecycle[2]. [1] http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/security/microsoft-reportedly-halts-new-software-development-temporarily http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/security/microsoft-repor... [2] http://www.microsoft.com/security/sdl/default.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/security/sdl/default.aspx
- rbarooah 15y agoYou dodged the question. You haven't listed a single thing that Microsoft has done that Apple has not. You are right that Microsoft started to take security seriously before Apple did, but Apple is not still behind. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/21/mac_os_x_lion_security/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/21/mac_os_x_lion_securi...
- dguido 15y ago... they have. They don't ship OS X with Java anymore. The only exploit this attack campaign is using is a Java exploit. They install Java when the user attempts to run something that needs it. The next best thing they'll have to do is, when they install it, disable the web plugin in Safari by default or add an interstitial that prompts the user for it to run. One 500k node botnet really is not that large in the grand scheme of things.
- justinschuh 15y agoI think "they have" is a bit overstated, unless you just mean they've shown improvement in the last few years. Things like functional ASLR and more use of seatbelt in Lion are definitely headed in the right direction; however, there seem to major gaps in testing and validating security--even basic stuff like continuous fuzzing and automated security testing. Also, their response and turnaround time is generally worse than Microsoft's (close to a year has not been uncommon). I can understand Microsoft's slowness due to their massive compatibility matrix and enterprise customer base--but Apple doesn't have that excuse. Apple has also been historically ignored as a mass malware target, so maybe a 500k node botnet is a helpful wakeup call. And just to be clear, I'll admit that I'm not a disinterested party here. The Chrome security team carries the bulk of the WebKit security workload (fuzzing, auditing, fixing, etc.). That consumes a tremendous amount of my team's time, and prevents us from focusing more on Chrome. So, I'd definitely appreciate it if Apple were significantly more proactive about security.
- dguido 15y agoWhy does Apple need to fix security bugs in Webkit? Are they being exploited somewhere by attackers I'm not familiar with? It doesn't seem like there is a problem to solve. I'd venture to say that Apple is more proactive than most other vendors about security because they look at the forest and not just the individual trees.
- justinschuh 15y agoI talked to Alex briefly at CanSec about your strategy. I appreciate the idea of setting a minimum bar, but it can start to sound like selling feel-good security. It's easy to say in hindsight "all you had to fix was these ten bugs and ignore the rest." The truth, however, is that you can't reliably predict that in advance. History has shown that even the low-end mass malware moves to more advanced techniques as targets become harder. And, of course, the strategy you're proposing does nothing for those at risk from targeted attacks (which is something I'm professionally seeing more and more of).
- nirvana 15y agoCan you name a single mac virus that has infected a significant number of machines in the wild since the mid 1990s? Note a Trojan, is not the same thing as a virus. A virus self propagates, a trojan propagates when a user overrides a security warning. Viruses have been a problem for Windows for decades, but not a problem on macs, since the late 1980s, possibly early 1990s.
- SpiderX 15y agoI think that's more to do with "herd immunity" than anything else. There haven't been enough macs communicating with macs to have widespread damage from a mac virus.
- blub 15y ago"Hey, this trojan has stolen our CC numbers, photos and personal documents, but at least it's not a virus! THAT would have been really bad...". And please try to keep up with the latest developments, this trojan requires no user intervention. Not running Little Snitch + antivirus at this point is just ignorant and asking for it.
- huxley 15y agoGood job on Dr. Web on finding this and trying to do the right thing but these quotes give a different context than you'd get from the article title and lede: "Sharov believes that Apple’s attempt to shut down its monitoring server was an honest mistake." "In Apple’s defense, it may not have recognized Dr. Web as a credible security firm when the company contacted Apple earlier this month–I hadn’t heard of the firm either until its discovery and analysis of the Flashback botnet." It looks like Apple wasn't the only one surprised by this: "But the better-known security firm Kaspersky confirmed Dr. Web’s findings on Friday. A Kaspersky representative said it hadn’t contacted Apple with its findings and hadn’t had any direct communication with the company, and Kaspersky researcher Kurt Baumgartner wrote in a statement that 'from what we’ve seen, Apple is taking appropriate action by working with the larger internet security community to shut down the Flashfake [also known as Flashback] C2 domains. Apple works vigorously to protect its brand and wants to rectify this.'"
- varjag 15y agoOh, Kaspersky couldn't be possibly surprised by existence of Dr. Web. The company is well established and has good market share in the former USSR. I remember using their products back in 1999 or so.
- ig1 15y agoThe first quote is from the forbes writer and not Kaspersky.
- Dylan16807 15y agoHuxley seemed to be using the quote to suggest that Kapersky didn't know of them.
- guard-of-terra 15y agoEither they didn't mean to or they are mistaken.
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- recoiledsnake 15y ago>“For Microsoft, we have all the security response team’s addresses,” he says. “We don’t know the antivirus group inside Apple.” Does Apple even have an antivirus group?
- coob 15y agoThey definitely have people working on OS X's malware protection (XProtect). The definitions file can be found at /System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources/XProtect.plist (Flashback A/B/C are in there for me).
- revelation 15y agoThere is obviously no point in reiterating how Apple is removing Java, how they are adding VMs, code signing - etc. The only way for them to improve security is to take it seriously, because the amount of code shipped with each release will only go up, never down. The attitude needs to change. There is of course lots of data support this argument. Just do a quick Ctrl+F through http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5130 http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5130 for 'arbitrary code execution'. 21 hits, and many of them in core apple components. These are almost extinct on Windows by now.
- runjake 15y agobecause the amount of code shipped with each release will only go up, never down. Actually, it went down with the Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard release. Up to 7 GB less. [1] 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Snow_Leopard#New_or_changed_features http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Snow_Leopard#New_or_ch...
- klez 15y agoI'm nitpicking, but 7GB in binary doesn't necessarily mean 7GB in source code.
- Zr40 15y agoAlmost extinct on Windows? I see patches for those every month. Here are six of them for the last two months: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms12-020 http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms12-02... http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms12-016 http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms12-01... (two vulnerabilities of this nature) http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms12-013 http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms12-01... http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms12-010 http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms12-01... http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms12-008 http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms12-00...
- ravivyas 15y agoThe biggest problem is as long as people think Macs are secure... they will never be.
- nirvana 15y agoWhich is why there are botnets of millions upon millions of Macs out there infected by viruses, while its really big news that a trojan manages to get 600,000 infections on Windows. Oh, no, wait, its the reverse!
- ravivyas 15y ago:) . Typical . I never mentioned anything about Windows. All I said was w.r.t computer security you are most venerable when you don't have the fear of bad things happening to you.
- SeanLuke 15y agoYou made an either-or proposition. Either you're secure or you're not. The responder nailed it correctly: the issue is not "secure/insecure". His example showed that it's a measure of utility. How much effort expended by Apple and its users is worth the probable reduction in botnets on that platform and their consequent damage? Because botnets are historically so rare on MacOS (9 or X) the utility equation has always been very much in the don't-worry-about-it category. Not so for (for example Windows). Will this equation change significantly with the new botnet? I think it's unlikely, but I dunno. Regardless, all-or-nothing seems to be the wrong perspective from which to examine this problem.
- ravivyas 15y agoI never mentioned Macs are more/less secured. All I am trying to say is w.r.t computer security the sense of being secure & letting your guard down is the most insecure thing. Its just not about Virus,Trojans , Worms etc .. its also about social engineering. I tell my mom don't open random links .. I don't mention if its on email or a webpage or if its on Windows or her Android phone.
- RyanMcGreal 15y agoOne interesting sidenote in this story is the fact that Mac OSX now has enough market share that it no longer enjoys security-by-obscurity from targeted malware, let alone herd immunity.
- nirvana 15y agoIt never did. It has simply been much more secure. The "security by obscurity" claim was a rationalization of windows fans to justify why the mac was so much more secure. Anyone who genuinely understand security understands that obscurity is not a form of security. There are many incidents of high profile targeted attacks against owners of macs that could have occurred in the past two decades if Apple hadn't been taking security more seriously.
- pooriaazimi 15y agoThis 'discovery' did certainly boost Dr. Web's market share though! 'Dr. Web Light' is now the number 2 most downloaded free app on the Mac App Store: http://cl.ly/1z0Z1F0P29221K1y3X01 http://cl.ly/1z0Z1F0P29221K1y3X01
- drieddust 15y agoso Apple first ignores Oracle's warning and fails to issue the patch. Later it react by removing Java and tries to shut down the security firm's domain. How responsible :)
- Zr40 15y agoNo, Java wasn't removed. Java was updated on systems where it has been installed.
- stuartd 15y agoAnnoyingly, the Java 2012 update REMOVED the -uninstall option from Java, so you have to rm it and clean up the installhistory plist manually if you want to uninstall Java from Lion
- Havoc 15y ago>“We don’t know the antivirus group inside Apple.” What antivirus group...