5 ms·

Steam taking 30% cut is fine. No one is being forced to use Steam (unlike on iOS) If developers don’t like it, they can chose other options to distribute their

Steam taking 30% cut is fine. No one is being forced to use Steam (unlike on iOS) If developers don’t like it, they can chose other options to distribute their game.

jquery 3y ago
Here is where I come in and recommend everyone check out Playnite: https://playnite.link/ https://playnite.link/ When I care about supporting a developer or publisher and they offer their product on their own storefront DRM-free, I will often go there to buy. Or I buy from GoG which takes a smaller cut. Playnite lets me launch my Steam and non-Steam games in a seamless fashion. Steam still does a great job as a game installer/patch manager, and helps me discover new games. But I'm not locked into paying them a 30% fee, which is pretty brutal for some smaller publishers.
- mattl 3y ago
  Windows only?
  - jquery 3y ago
    It can run on Linux/Steam Deck apparently: https://www.reddit.com/r/playnite/comments/15q2x16/i_installed_playnite_on_linux_steam_deck/ https://www.reddit.com/r/playnite/comments/15q2x16/i_install... I have only used it on my Windows install, so I can't recommend this.
hyperbovine 3y ago
Who is being forced to use iOS?
- beefsack 3y ago
  Not being forced to use iOS, but if you are on iOS you are forced to use the app store.
- nkrisc 3y ago
  I think the point is Valve doesn’t own the store and the platform.
  - redkoala 3y ago
    They do now for the Steam Deck, but customers can always choose to play on Desktop or x86 handhelds instead.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      SD is ultimately a linux computer, so you can still throw on another store if you really care. It's also a relatiely niche device, so not quite prone to monopoly effects anyway.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      You can install other game stores on your steam deck. You can directly install apps outside of Steam. You can even install a different operating system if you want. It's not locked to Steam in the slightest. Let me know when I can install fdroid on iOS.
- csdreamer7 3y ago
  Literally people will look down on you if you don't buy an iPhone. They back off when they find out my line of work, but you hear about bullying and peer pressure in school over bubbles. That does not end when you leave high school. One VC said that people that buy Android don't have taste and wouldn't work with them. Now they say Android is for poor people. Freedom to sideload or install a custom os be damned.
  - fennecfoxy 3y ago
    Apple knows this and has curated it. Why do people think that they had specific bubble colours for messaging devices inside/outside Apple ecosystem. They even did deep, dirty tricks like this: https://uxdesign.cc/how-apple-makes-you-think-green-bubbles-gross-e03b52b12fed https://uxdesign.cc/how-apple-makes-you-think-green-bubbles-.... Not only that but Apple just love to lean heavily on their own custom functionality rather than coming up with open/reusable technologies. Apple are happy to use Wifi & Bluetooth standards to compete in the market, but not so much standards for chats/group chats (where Android users find things don't mesh as well/they don't have the same functionality as iOS users). I can't for the life of me find it now, but I remember reading an article a while back on how Google found a way to trick iPhones into accepting Android messages as "blue bubble"/iOS messages by dumping some string onto the end or something. I'm sure it was a HN post but I can't find it, which sucks cause it was pretty funny reading.
  - serf 3y ago
    >That does not end when you leave high school. It's not a high school thing, it's just amplified during that point in life; there is always pressure to conform. I don't care about whether or not some VC thinks I have class either professionally or personally. Avoid people that jump to conclusions and you'll be better off, regardless of how fancy their personal titles are.
    - dotBen 3y ago
      Don't worry, there are a (perhaps) surprising amount of VCs who love Android. I'm one of them. We are not all the same!
  - 3y ago
- allarm 3y ago
  No one is being forced to drink water as well.
  - walteweiss 3y ago
    No one is being forced to breathe!
  - hyperbovine 3y ago
    So to complete the analogy, if you don't use iOS you'll die. ...?
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      s/you/iPhones and yes, that does line up.
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  Literally every app developer who want to target the iPhone user market.
  - rfoo 3y ago
    Don't forget, they are also forced to buy a Mac. License demand that iOS SDK must be used only on Apple hardware.
account42 3y ago
Technically no-one is being forced but network effects mean that not publishing on steam is essentially suicide for any dev without a huge marketing budget to overcome those network effects. This means that Steam is in a position where they can demand feeds in excess of what they could in a healthy competitive market.
- mulletbum 3y ago
  Epic has lots of games that aren't published to Steam. They seem to be doing fine.
  - ryathal 3y ago
    Epic recently admitted their store isn't profitable.
    - m_0x 3y ago
      That doesn't mean the Epic Store is not profitable for the developers.
      - ryathal 3y ago
        It does mean that at any point in the future the store could simply not exist with short notice.
  - dontlaugh 3y ago
    Most game developers aren't Epic. It's Steam or bust for the vast majority.
  - Sabinus 3y ago
    Epic pays those Devs for timed exclusivity on EGS, with the profits from Fornite and Unreal.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  Is there anything preventing a healthy competetive market for game stores on PC? Does Steam/Valve engage in behaviour that limits competition? Alternatives do exist - itch.io, GOG, Epic Game Store, and just putting an .exe file on your website. If the market is not being artificially suppressed (I don't believe it is), and developer still think it's financially advantageous to pay Steam's fees, doesn't that indicate the fee is "correct"?

Steam taking 30% cut is fine. No one is being forced to use Steam (unlike on iOS) If developers don’t like it, they can chose other options to distribute their game.

jquery 3y ago

Here is where I come in and recommend everyone check out Playnite: https://playnite.link/ https://playnite.link/ When I care about supporting a developer or publisher and they offer their product on their own storefront DRM-free, I will often go there to buy. Or I buy from GoG which takes a smaller cut. Playnite lets me launch my Steam and non-Steam games in a seamless fashion. Steam still does a great job as a game installer/patch manager, and helps me discover new games. But I'm not locked into paying them a 30% fee, which is pretty brutal for some smaller publishers.

mattl 3y ago
Windows only?
- jquery 3y ago
  It can run on Linux/Steam Deck apparently: https://www.reddit.com/r/playnite/comments/15q2x16/i_installed_playnite_on_linux_steam_deck/ https://www.reddit.com/r/playnite/comments/15q2x16/i_install... I have only used it on my Windows install, so I can't recommend this.

hyperbovine 3y ago

Who is being forced to use iOS?

beefsack 3y ago
Not being forced to use iOS, but if you are on iOS you are forced to use the app store.
nkrisc 3y ago
I think the point is Valve doesn’t own the store and the platform.
- redkoala 3y ago
  They do now for the Steam Deck, but customers can always choose to play on Desktop or x86 handhelds instead.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    SD is ultimately a linux computer, so you can still throw on another store if you really care. It's also a relatiely niche device, so not quite prone to monopoly effects anyway.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    You can install other game stores on your steam deck. You can directly install apps outside of Steam. You can even install a different operating system if you want. It's not locked to Steam in the slightest. Let me know when I can install fdroid on iOS.
csdreamer7 3y ago
Literally people will look down on you if you don't buy an iPhone. They back off when they find out my line of work, but you hear about bullying and peer pressure in school over bubbles. That does not end when you leave high school. One VC said that people that buy Android don't have taste and wouldn't work with them. Now they say Android is for poor people. Freedom to sideload or install a custom os be damned.
- fennecfoxy 3y ago
  Apple knows this and has curated it. Why do people think that they had specific bubble colours for messaging devices inside/outside Apple ecosystem. They even did deep, dirty tricks like this: https://uxdesign.cc/how-apple-makes-you-think-green-bubbles-gross-e03b52b12fed https://uxdesign.cc/how-apple-makes-you-think-green-bubbles-.... Not only that but Apple just love to lean heavily on their own custom functionality rather than coming up with open/reusable technologies. Apple are happy to use Wifi & Bluetooth standards to compete in the market, but not so much standards for chats/group chats (where Android users find things don't mesh as well/they don't have the same functionality as iOS users). I can't for the life of me find it now, but I remember reading an article a while back on how Google found a way to trick iPhones into accepting Android messages as "blue bubble"/iOS messages by dumping some string onto the end or something. I'm sure it was a HN post but I can't find it, which sucks cause it was pretty funny reading.
- serf 3y ago
  >That does not end when you leave high school. It's not a high school thing, it's just amplified during that point in life; there is always pressure to conform. I don't care about whether or not some VC thinks I have class either professionally or personally. Avoid people that jump to conclusions and you'll be better off, regardless of how fancy their personal titles are.
  - dotBen 3y ago
    Don't worry, there are a (perhaps) surprising amount of VCs who love Android. I'm one of them. We are not all the same!
- 3y ago
allarm 3y ago
No one is being forced to drink water as well.
- walteweiss 3y ago
  No one is being forced to breathe!
- hyperbovine 3y ago
  So to complete the analogy, if you don't use iOS you'll die. ...?
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    s/you/iPhones and yes, that does line up.
littlestymaar 3y ago
Literally every app developer who want to target the iPhone user market.
- rfoo 3y ago
  Don't forget, they are also forced to buy a Mac. License demand that iOS SDK must be used only on Apple hardware.

account42 3y ago

Technically no-one is being forced but network effects mean that not publishing on steam is essentially suicide for any dev without a huge marketing budget to overcome those network effects. This means that Steam is in a position where they can demand feeds in excess of what they could in a healthy competitive market.

mulletbum 3y ago
Epic has lots of games that aren't published to Steam. They seem to be doing fine.
- ryathal 3y ago
  Epic recently admitted their store isn't profitable.
  - m_0x 3y ago
    That doesn't mean the Epic Store is not profitable for the developers.
    - ryathal 3y ago
      It does mean that at any point in the future the store could simply not exist with short notice.
- dontlaugh 3y ago
  Most game developers aren't Epic. It's Steam or bust for the vast majority.
- Sabinus 3y ago
  Epic pays those Devs for timed exclusivity on EGS, with the profits from Fornite and Unreal.
madeofpalk 3y ago
Is there anything preventing a healthy competetive market for game stores on PC? Does Steam/Valve engage in behaviour that limits competition? Alternatives do exist - itch.io, GOG, Epic Game Store, and just putting an .exe file on your website. If the market is not being artificially suppressed (I don't believe it is), and developer still think it's financially advantageous to pay Steam's fees, doesn't that indicate the fee is "correct"?