4 ms·

I'd like to as in what ways is Europe great? From my narrow point of view, most if not all successful startups were founded outside Europe, most countries in We

I'd like to as in what ways is Europe great? From my narrow point of view, most if not all successful startups were founded outside Europe, most countries in Western Europe tend to be monolithic cultures where outsiders are made to feel like outsiders, and many European nations are socialist utopias (which means they take away a HUGE chunk of salary as tax). (And I am asking this in a friendly tone, as a genuinely curious question, and not a combative one. These nuances get lost, so putting them down in words). Thanks.

ponector 3y ago
It is great for living, for raising kids. For life. Taxes in Europe are huge, but comparable with taxes in California. Just sum all federal, state, local taxes on the salary, property taxes, sales taxes, health insurance fee, college tuition fee. Don't forget to add 25% tips to that. Count also small vacation, maternity leave and sick leave. And then compare for example with France. And not to mention you wouldn't find anywhere in EU thousands of homeless junkies shitting on the streets.
- sharadov 3y ago
  If you work in tech - earning's wise you'll still come out far ahead of Europe. Ask the Europeans working in SV.
  - unixhero 3y ago
    300k eur per year Government taxes 50% of that
    - cto_of_antifa 3y ago
      [dead]
- julienb_sea 3y ago
  I'm sorry, I don't think you have sufficient perspective on what middle class life is like in France to make this comment with any justification. French taxation is incredibly complex and heavy on the middle class. It is financially unfeasible for most middle class households to pass down their homes to their children due to the estate tax kicking on assets over 100,000 eur. There are many unhoused people spread across rural city centers and the outer banlieues of Paris. College is vastly more restricted in France and unavailable to the majority of the population. Social mobility is significantly constrained. Life grinds to a halt with some regularity due to general strikes. I am immensely grateful to have American citizenship and not have to raise my family in France.
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    It is financially unfeasible for most middle class households to pass down their homes to their children due to the estate tax kicking on assets over 100,000 eur. That seems OK to me. Why should children who are lucky to be born into a stable middle class family have a large financial advantage over other children? To be clear, passing down an entire home tax free in a highly developed nation is a huge financial advantage. Literally: 1,000+ EURs per month, for life would be saved. Why do so many people on HN think this should be normal to allow? In my eyes, this is the path to Old World aristocracy. The purpose of inheritance taxes is to reduce this advantage. I can guess what the reply/replies will be: "Oh, but housing is more expensive now. There is no choice but to use inheritance to give my children a head start." It would be better to ask why housing has gotten so out of control, not using inheritance to side step the issue.
    - vasco 3y ago
      > Why should children who are lucky to be born into a stable middle class family have a large financial advantage over other children The reason why we have inheritances is people in power convinced each other that regular people will work harder throughout all their lives if they know they can give their children a better life. Meaning the economy is way better with some inheritance present than without inheritance. Love is a powerful thing and while most people would agree with you that in theory they'd like all children to have the same opportunities, once their babies are born they will fight forever to give them the best conditions they can. I agree with inheritance taxes, probably not 100%, but wanted to explain the perspective of people that want full untaxed inheritances.
- refurb 3y ago
  No. Just look at taxes as a percentage of GDP and you can see EU taxes are 50%+ higher than even CA. Then add on top the lower wages.
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    Do you include that housing prices, health care, and university fees are all much lower in continental Europe?
    - hef19898 3y ago
      Plus, there is more to a society and economy than SV style start-ups.
    - refurb 3y ago
      What do those have to do with the claim about tax rate? And regardless, if you're middle income or higher, you're paying way more in taxes in Europe than those things cost in the US.
- eru 3y ago
  Switzerland and Estonia have somewhat lower taxes than eg UK, France and Germany.
misantroop 3y ago
Startups operating in Americas are founded in US. Rest of the world is different. For example, Lazada is huge in SEA and was created by Rocket Internet (DE). Delivery Hero (again, DE) is massive in SEA as well, the US ones like DoorDash have absolutely no presence. Uber isn't a thing anymore either. In fact I see far more European and Asian companies operating globally nowadays, US startups are quite isolationist.

ponector 3y ago

It is great for living, for raising kids. For life. Taxes in Europe are huge, but comparable with taxes in California. Just sum all federal, state, local taxes on the salary, property taxes, sales taxes, health insurance fee, college tuition fee. Don't forget to add 25% tips to that. Count also small vacation, maternity leave and sick leave. And then compare for example with France. And not to mention you wouldn't find anywhere in EU thousands of homeless junkies shitting on the streets.

sharadov 3y ago
If you work in tech - earning's wise you'll still come out far ahead of Europe. Ask the Europeans working in SV.
- unixhero 3y ago
  300k eur per year Government taxes 50% of that
  - cto_of_antifa 3y ago
    [dead]
julienb_sea 3y ago
I'm sorry, I don't think you have sufficient perspective on what middle class life is like in France to make this comment with any justification. French taxation is incredibly complex and heavy on the middle class. It is financially unfeasible for most middle class households to pass down their homes to their children due to the estate tax kicking on assets over 100,000 eur. There are many unhoused people spread across rural city centers and the outer banlieues of Paris. College is vastly more restricted in France and unavailable to the majority of the population. Social mobility is significantly constrained. Life grinds to a halt with some regularity due to general strikes. I am immensely grateful to have American citizenship and not have to raise my family in France.
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  It is financially unfeasible for most middle class households to pass down their homes to their children due to the estate tax kicking on assets over 100,000 eur. That seems OK to me. Why should children who are lucky to be born into a stable middle class family have a large financial advantage over other children? To be clear, passing down an entire home tax free in a highly developed nation is a huge financial advantage. Literally: 1,000+ EURs per month, for life would be saved. Why do so many people on HN think this should be normal to allow? In my eyes, this is the path to Old World aristocracy. The purpose of inheritance taxes is to reduce this advantage. I can guess what the reply/replies will be: "Oh, but housing is more expensive now. There is no choice but to use inheritance to give my children a head start." It would be better to ask why housing has gotten so out of control, not using inheritance to side step the issue.
  - vasco 3y ago
    > Why should children who are lucky to be born into a stable middle class family have a large financial advantage over other children The reason why we have inheritances is people in power convinced each other that regular people will work harder throughout all their lives if they know they can give their children a better life. Meaning the economy is way better with some inheritance present than without inheritance. Love is a powerful thing and while most people would agree with you that in theory they'd like all children to have the same opportunities, once their babies are born they will fight forever to give them the best conditions they can. I agree with inheritance taxes, probably not 100%, but wanted to explain the perspective of people that want full untaxed inheritances.
refurb 3y ago
No. Just look at taxes as a percentage of GDP and you can see EU taxes are 50%+ higher than even CA. Then add on top the lower wages.
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  Do you include that housing prices, health care, and university fees are all much lower in continental Europe?
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Plus, there is more to a society and economy than SV style start-ups.
  - refurb 3y ago
    What do those have to do with the claim about tax rate? And regardless, if you're middle income or higher, you're paying way more in taxes in Europe than those things cost in the US.
eru 3y ago
Switzerland and Estonia have somewhat lower taxes than eg UK, France and Germany.

misantroop 3y ago

Startups operating in Americas are founded in US. Rest of the world is different. For example, Lazada is huge in SEA and was created by Rocket Internet (DE). Delivery Hero (again, DE) is massive in SEA as well, the US ones like DoorDash have absolutely no presence. Uber isn't a thing anymore either. In fact I see far more European and Asian companies operating globally nowadays, US startups are quite isolationist.