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This is in Europe: https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/11/contractors-accuse-european-space-agency-of-a-culture-of-harassment/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2023
by zopa 3y ago
This is in Europe: https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/11/contractors-accuse-european-space-agency-of-a-culture-of-harassment/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/11/contractors-accuse-eur...
A very similar-sounding caste-system. Europe’s great and all but it isn’t Utopia.
- ponector 3y agoDifferent treatment is a thing. But I couldn't imagine someone is ESA will say fruits and pizza are for employees only. Please leave the room while your coworkers eat.
- ExoticPearTree 3y agoI don't think it is illegal. And they can fire on the spot the contractors who have silly objections about this. It feels like contractors forget they are contractors...
- Nevermark 3y agoYou are missing the point that legal vs. socially acceptable are two different but very real factors that people care about. You can’t legal away basic courtesy and explain away people’s anger at being treated like a lower social class. Imagine if first class seats on a commercial flight were interspersed among regular class seats. First class passengers get more room, better food, more respect from attendants … right in front of people who don’t get those. If the first class passengers get faster access to something basic like water, some people will go ballistic. Sure people paid more for the nicer seats, but do you think that legal fact dispenses with the unhealthy social situation and bad feelings that would create?
- whydoyoucare 3y agoI'd like to as in what ways is Europe great? From my narrow point of view, most if not all successful startups were founded outside Europe, most countries in Western Europe tend to be monolithic cultures where outsiders are made to feel like outsiders, and many European nations are socialist utopias (which means they take away a HUGE chunk of salary as tax). (And I am asking this in a friendly tone, as a genuinely curious question, and not a combative one. These nuances get lost, so putting them down in words). Thanks.
- ponector 3y agoIt is great for living, for raising kids. For life. Taxes in Europe are huge, but comparable with taxes in California. Just sum all federal, state, local taxes on the salary, property taxes, sales taxes, health insurance fee, college tuition fee. Don't forget to add 25% tips to that. Count also small vacation, maternity leave and sick leave. And then compare for example with France. And not to mention you wouldn't find anywhere in EU thousands of homeless junkies shitting on the streets.
- sharadov 3y agoIf you work in tech - earning's wise you'll still come out far ahead of Europe. Ask the Europeans working in SV.
- unixhero 3y ago300k eur per year Government taxes 50% of that
- cto_of_antifa 3y ago[dead]
- julienb_sea 3y agoI'm sorry, I don't think you have sufficient perspective on what middle class life is like in France to make this comment with any justification. French taxation is incredibly complex and heavy on the middle class. It is financially unfeasible for most middle class households to pass down their homes to their children due to the estate tax kicking on assets over 100,000 eur. There are many unhoused people spread across rural city centers and the outer banlieues of Paris. College is vastly more restricted in France and unavailable to the majority of the population. Social mobility is significantly constrained. Life grinds to a halt with some regularity due to general strikes. I am immensely grateful to have American citizenship and not have to raise my family in France.
- jalapenos 3y agoWhen people here say "Europe is great", which part are they referring to?
- OJFord 3y ago'Western Europe' or 'EU + UK' or 'G6' basically, with the additional information that the speaker's North American.
- eru 3y agoNo love for Switzerland?
- OJFord 3y agoI didn't mean 'Western Europe' to exclude it. UN geoscheme lists it as such if you want something concrete. (Though it also puts the UK in Northern Europe, and leaves out Italy & Spain & Portugal (Southern), which I didn't mean either.) It's a funny term. In UK use it means something like 'mainland Europe but not Russia or some former Soviet states'. It's about the bits you think of and travel to, I suppose. Although that makes it sound obvious, which it isn't, because nobody means India when they say Asia, but it's at least as much in the public psyche as anywhere else in continental Asia.
- eru 3y agoOh, I meant EU+UK would exclude Switzerland. No comment about Western Europe intended.
- BurningFrog 3y agoThey're typically Americans who think all 50+ European countries have very similar legal systems and cultures.
- mtnGoat 3y agoThe typical American still probably doesn’t even know that the words EU and Europe aren’t interchangeable. When I lived to Austria I was appalled at how many American friends asked me about the surfing.
- GuB-42 3y agoI know from reliable sources that Airbus has the same problem.
- ragall 3y agoLegally speaking, ESA is not in Europe and is not obliged to follow any nation's law.
- hef19898 3y agoMuch like NATO.