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Every US company. European companies somehow have contractors without caste system. Obviously there are different policies for internals and contractors, but f

Every US company. European companies somehow have contractors without caste system. Obviously there are different policies for internals and contractors, but fruits and pizza are for everyone in the office.

tgma 3y ago
European tech worker is compensated so measly everyone is equally poor I suppose. Just like every commun... ehem... socialist system, it achieves equality at epsilon.
rightbyte 3y ago
Which is because it is extremely rude, like meanest of meanest, to not share food with each other. Like, of all mean but not illegal things you can do to contractors, not sharing food is probably what people consider the worst. Small every day things are way more provocative than abstract things like retirement funds or whatever. Been there. Done that. The FTEs got strawberries. I didn't. I don't think I have been that pissed off in my life. If someone had wrecked my car on purpose I'd be less pissed.
- jterrys 3y ago
  I experienced something similar at a previous job. It was funny. I was working in a satellite office for an org based in a different country, and once in a while (minimum once a year) we'd be sent to HQ for a few weeks. Wrapping up projects, team coordination, whatever. So of course we'd eat together. The team got a new manager when I joined, and he was told that our treatment was equal despite satellite office status because we were on the same teams coordinating on the same projects, but in different timezones. Anyway, even though I was technically a FTE at the company, I didn't have the necessary prerequisites to pay for cafeteria food at FTE discounts. I was forced to pay contractor prices. A full extra $5 per meal. My manager was initially confused, then upset. Then we tried to talk with the cafeteria contracting company. They told him it was out of their control. So, we began investigating...eventually uncovering some internal "separate but equal" undocumented employment scheme were compensation, benefits, whatnot, unraveled into a weird caste discrimination system. The people that were pulling their weight were paid pennies while senior team members who were awaiting retirement just raked in the big bucks with benefits on contracts no longer offered, or offered through some backdoor deals before the company really expanded. In the end, the lunch situation was solved by just stating that I was a FTE because I had the same color badge. It turns out the cashiers didn't even scan badges or anything, just asked you if you were internal and to show your badge. But out of all the bullshit we uncovered, the food situation really broke his spirit the most.
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  This is like Intel with the apples and tea bags that green badges had to pay for.
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago
  I don't get it. Why would you be pissed if those were the rules of the company you were contracting to? As a contractor you get paid more than the regular employees because you take on a greater risk (such as being fired at any moment without any explanation) and you do whatever you're told. If you don't like it you can always look for another client. My point being you can't have your cake and eat it too. Does it suck sometimes? Yes. But such is contractor life.
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    > Why would you be pissed if those were the rules of the company you were contracting to? Not being on the Google health or retirement plan is one thing. That's something you can do maths to, see if your alternative arrangements make sense. But witholding food is something that feels anti-human. Like it hits some primal parts of me. Eating a meal with people you work alongside is, depending on your interpretation, between a few hundred thousand and a few hundred million years old as a social act. Denying that is... something else.
  - PedroBatista 3y ago
    Maybe they are people and not a robot, emotionally the context of a human is day-to-day not the lines of a contract. Also most of the time these people are not receiving more money, more like the same or less.
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    Hospitality is a fundamental virtue. Skimping out on food is maybe the fundamental transgression of norms. The anger is subconscious and maybe primal. I was a "contractor" from an in practice body shop consult agency, not an actual contractor. I did every day office work for three years, being part of a normal work group going to every day meetings etc. But I don't think that matters. If you have an actual consultant in the office, being there once a month, you give him strawberries too, if you hand out strawberries. Also, the pay was somewhat lower. I was fresh out of uni so I didn't know better. Notably, only bosses two layers up thought it was a good idea to skimp on the strawberries etc. The bosses that had to deal with the ensuing bad mood ensured there was no such distinction between FTEs and "contractors".
sjburt 3y ago
At least with regard to 1099 vs W-2, a huge amount of this is due to IRS rules.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  No, that's a rationalization. It is because psychopaths are running the place. I have never heard of an employer paying benefit tax on pizzas, and if they did, surely they can bill the consulting firm in some circle if that is the case.
- ponector 3y ago
  I had the same two-caste system enforced in European office of US company. Legally it was a local company with parent in US. But anyway, "food is only for employees". Funny enough, even student who was there for 20 hours per week and did anything but work was allowed to eat. This is a cultural thing.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    It is a legal and cost thing. Said student is directly employed, the contractors have an employment contract with the agency. And those agencies are used to reduce costs, hence no sponsored, free or discounted food.
zopa 3y ago
This is in Europe: https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/11/contractors-accuse-european-space-agency-of-a-culture-of-harassment/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/11/contractors-accuse-eur... A very similar-sounding caste-system. Europe’s great and all but it isn’t Utopia.
- ponector 3y ago
  Different treatment is a thing. But I couldn't imagine someone is ESA will say fruits and pizza are for employees only. Please leave the room while your coworkers eat.
  - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
    I don't think it is illegal. And they can fire on the spot the contractors who have silly objections about this. It feels like contractors forget they are contractors...
    - Nevermark 3y ago
      You are missing the point that legal vs. socially acceptable are two different but very real factors that people care about. You can’t legal away basic courtesy and explain away people’s anger at being treated like a lower social class. Imagine if first class seats on a commercial flight were interspersed among regular class seats. First class passengers get more room, better food, more respect from attendants … right in front of people who don’t get those. If the first class passengers get faster access to something basic like water, some people will go ballistic. Sure people paid more for the nicer seats, but do you think that legal fact dispenses with the unhealthy social situation and bad feelings that would create?
- whydoyoucare 3y ago
  I'd like to as in what ways is Europe great? From my narrow point of view, most if not all successful startups were founded outside Europe, most countries in Western Europe tend to be monolithic cultures where outsiders are made to feel like outsiders, and many European nations are socialist utopias (which means they take away a HUGE chunk of salary as tax). (And I am asking this in a friendly tone, as a genuinely curious question, and not a combative one. These nuances get lost, so putting them down in words). Thanks.
shadowgovt 3y ago
The difference is unions.
collaborative 3y ago
Spain and UK also run on castes. I don't know about others

tgma 3y ago

European tech worker is compensated so measly everyone is equally poor I suppose. Just like every commun... ehem... socialist system, it achieves equality at epsilon.

rightbyte 3y ago

Which is because it is extremely rude, like meanest of meanest, to not share food with each other. Like, of all mean but not illegal things you can do to contractors, not sharing food is probably what people consider the worst. Small every day things are way more provocative than abstract things like retirement funds or whatever. Been there. Done that. The FTEs got strawberries. I didn't. I don't think I have been that pissed off in my life. If someone had wrecked my car on purpose I'd be less pissed.

jterrys 3y ago
I experienced something similar at a previous job. It was funny. I was working in a satellite office for an org based in a different country, and once in a while (minimum once a year) we'd be sent to HQ for a few weeks. Wrapping up projects, team coordination, whatever. So of course we'd eat together. The team got a new manager when I joined, and he was told that our treatment was equal despite satellite office status because we were on the same teams coordinating on the same projects, but in different timezones. Anyway, even though I was technically a FTE at the company, I didn't have the necessary prerequisites to pay for cafeteria food at FTE discounts. I was forced to pay contractor prices. A full extra $5 per meal. My manager was initially confused, then upset. Then we tried to talk with the cafeteria contracting company. They told him it was out of their control. So, we began investigating...eventually uncovering some internal "separate but equal" undocumented employment scheme were compensation, benefits, whatnot, unraveled into a weird caste discrimination system. The people that were pulling their weight were paid pennies while senior team members who were awaiting retirement just raked in the big bucks with benefits on contracts no longer offered, or offered through some backdoor deals before the company really expanded. In the end, the lunch situation was solved by just stating that I was a FTE because I had the same color badge. It turns out the cashiers didn't even scan badges or anything, just asked you if you were internal and to show your badge. But out of all the bullshit we uncovered, the food situation really broke his spirit the most.
selimthegrim 3y ago
This is like Intel with the apples and tea bags that green badges had to pay for.
ExoticPearTree 3y ago
I don't get it. Why would you be pissed if those were the rules of the company you were contracting to? As a contractor you get paid more than the regular employees because you take on a greater risk (such as being fired at any moment without any explanation) and you do whatever you're told. If you don't like it you can always look for another client. My point being you can't have your cake and eat it too. Does it suck sometimes? Yes. But such is contractor life.
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  > Why would you be pissed if those were the rules of the company you were contracting to? Not being on the Google health or retirement plan is one thing. That's something you can do maths to, see if your alternative arrangements make sense. But witholding food is something that feels anti-human. Like it hits some primal parts of me. Eating a meal with people you work alongside is, depending on your interpretation, between a few hundred thousand and a few hundred million years old as a social act. Denying that is... something else.
- PedroBatista 3y ago
  Maybe they are people and not a robot, emotionally the context of a human is day-to-day not the lines of a contract. Also most of the time these people are not receiving more money, more like the same or less.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  Hospitality is a fundamental virtue. Skimping out on food is maybe the fundamental transgression of norms. The anger is subconscious and maybe primal. I was a "contractor" from an in practice body shop consult agency, not an actual contractor. I did every day office work for three years, being part of a normal work group going to every day meetings etc. But I don't think that matters. If you have an actual consultant in the office, being there once a month, you give him strawberries too, if you hand out strawberries. Also, the pay was somewhat lower. I was fresh out of uni so I didn't know better. Notably, only bosses two layers up thought it was a good idea to skimp on the strawberries etc. The bosses that had to deal with the ensuing bad mood ensured there was no such distinction between FTEs and "contractors".

sjburt 3y ago

At least with regard to 1099 vs W-2, a huge amount of this is due to IRS rules.

rightbyte 3y ago
No, that's a rationalization. It is because psychopaths are running the place. I have never heard of an employer paying benefit tax on pizzas, and if they did, surely they can bill the consulting firm in some circle if that is the case.
ponector 3y ago
I had the same two-caste system enforced in European office of US company. Legally it was a local company with parent in US. But anyway, "food is only for employees". Funny enough, even student who was there for 20 hours per week and did anything but work was allowed to eat. This is a cultural thing.
- hef19898 3y ago
  It is a legal and cost thing. Said student is directly employed, the contractors have an employment contract with the agency. And those agencies are used to reduce costs, hence no sponsored, free or discounted food.

zopa 3y ago

This is in Europe: https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/11/contractors-accuse-european-space-agency-of-a-culture-of-harassment/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/11/contractors-accuse-eur... A very similar-sounding caste-system. Europe’s great and all but it isn’t Utopia.

ponector 3y ago
Different treatment is a thing. But I couldn't imagine someone is ESA will say fruits and pizza are for employees only. Please leave the room while your coworkers eat.
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago
  I don't think it is illegal. And they can fire on the spot the contractors who have silly objections about this. It feels like contractors forget they are contractors...
  - Nevermark 3y ago
    You are missing the point that legal vs. socially acceptable are two different but very real factors that people care about. You can’t legal away basic courtesy and explain away people’s anger at being treated like a lower social class. Imagine if first class seats on a commercial flight were interspersed among regular class seats. First class passengers get more room, better food, more respect from attendants … right in front of people who don’t get those. If the first class passengers get faster access to something basic like water, some people will go ballistic. Sure people paid more for the nicer seats, but do you think that legal fact dispenses with the unhealthy social situation and bad feelings that would create?
whydoyoucare 3y ago
I'd like to as in what ways is Europe great? From my narrow point of view, most if not all successful startups were founded outside Europe, most countries in Western Europe tend to be monolithic cultures where outsiders are made to feel like outsiders, and many European nations are socialist utopias (which means they take away a HUGE chunk of salary as tax). (And I am asking this in a friendly tone, as a genuinely curious question, and not a combative one. These nuances get lost, so putting them down in words). Thanks.

shadowgovt 3y ago

The difference is unions.

collaborative 3y ago

Spain and UK also run on castes. I don't know about others