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That's a weird way of looking at it. Of course you produced nothing of value. Learning in school is about absorbing already existing knowledge. Barring some re

That's a weird way of looking at it. Of course you produced nothing of value. Learning in school is about absorbing already existing knowledge. Barring some really exceptional anecdotes like Gauss figuring out how to efficiently sum series in school, it's pretty much certain that you'll come up with nothing new whatsoever. But surely some of that had to sink in, and that was the point. In the long term, the vast majority of things fade away. I spent a lot of time maintaining an internal inventory management app, which was eventually deprecated and now it's probably not used by anyone anywhere in the world, if not completely lost forever. Such is life. Still, I learned a lot from that.

quacked 3y ago
> Of course you produced nothing of value. Learning in school is about absorbing already existing knowledge. That's certainly how it's set up today, but I find it difficult to believe that the most optimized, useful, and productive way to teach children about reality is the method we've settled on in the modern US. School could instead be designed around the production of art, goods, and services that are actually desired and used by people in and outside of the school. This would be a great deal more difficult to set up and maintain than a series of gradeable worksheets. > Learning in school is about absorbing already existing knowledge. Under the current model, is the knowledge really absorbed? Math class is great example. Most people struggle through algebra and trigonometry worksheets for a few hundred hours and then immediately dump the knowledge when they graduate and can't even name the three primary triangle side-ratios five years later. Was completing curated problem sets under threat of a worse career if they failed really the best use of their time? That can't be the best way to teach them. > I spent a lot of time maintaining an internal inventory management app, which was eventually deprecated and now it's probably not used by anyone anywhere in the world, if not completely lost forever. Such is life. Still, I learned a lot from that. Sure, but you were producing something of value. When you learned about an issue, you went hunting for the root cause because people were actually relying on you to do so, and when you fixed the issue you felt real satisfaction, and retained a desire to remember what you'd done. Also, you were paid. I would wager a good deal of money that what you learned while managing the app stuck in your brain a lot more effectively than if the same activity had been taught to you in a class where you completed worksheets based on the inventory management platform.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Sounds a lot like turning school into a workplace. Sometimes when you want to learn something new you dive in and try to hack something together. But when it’s sufficiently complicated or foreign you cant do that. You have to step back and study the underlying domain. That’s school. Its an incredible luxury to do that for 16 years of your life while producing nothing of value.
  - HPsquared 3y ago
    School, as experienced by most people, is definitely not a luxury. It's closer to an ordeal.
  - argiopetech 3y ago
    16 years of schooling is a luxury only if you're getting something out of it and are intending to go to college. Otherwise, it's a prison (for the upper levels, at minimum). If you're not inclined to book learning or find yourself in a poor quality institution, an apprenticeship in a workplace/industry relevant to your interests could easily be a better fit.
- andrewjl 3y ago
  > but I find it difficult to believe that the most optimized, useful, and productive way to teach children about reality is the method we've settled on in the modern US. You're spot on, it isn't. That's by design. The foremost goal of a modern education system is creating a labor force[1][2] that meets the projected demands of the economy. What is interesting to think about is that over time the type of workforce the economy needs changes and how that interacts with changes in education policy. Don't get me wrong, there is value in trigonometry but I think classes on probability, statistics, and basic financial math like compound interest and so on are much more impactful when it comes to aggregate outcomes. I don't think it has to be an either or type of thing. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_school https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_school
  - 3y ago

quacked 3y ago

> Of course you produced nothing of value. Learning in school is about absorbing already existing knowledge. That's certainly how it's set up today, but I find it difficult to believe that the most optimized, useful, and productive way to teach children about reality is the method we've settled on in the modern US. School could instead be designed around the production of art, goods, and services that are actually desired and used by people in and outside of the school. This would be a great deal more difficult to set up and maintain than a series of gradeable worksheets. > Learning in school is about absorbing already existing knowledge. Under the current model, is the knowledge really absorbed? Math class is great example. Most people struggle through algebra and trigonometry worksheets for a few hundred hours and then immediately dump the knowledge when they graduate and can't even name the three primary triangle side-ratios five years later. Was completing curated problem sets under threat of a worse career if they failed really the best use of their time? That can't be the best way to teach them. > I spent a lot of time maintaining an internal inventory management app, which was eventually deprecated and now it's probably not used by anyone anywhere in the world, if not completely lost forever. Such is life. Still, I learned a lot from that. Sure, but you were producing something of value. When you learned about an issue, you went hunting for the root cause because people were actually relying on you to do so, and when you fixed the issue you felt real satisfaction, and retained a desire to remember what you'd done. Also, you were paid. I would wager a good deal of money that what you learned while managing the app stuck in your brain a lot more effectively than if the same activity had been taught to you in a class where you completed worksheets based on the inventory management platform.

nonethewiser 3y ago
Sounds a lot like turning school into a workplace. Sometimes when you want to learn something new you dive in and try to hack something together. But when it’s sufficiently complicated or foreign you cant do that. You have to step back and study the underlying domain. That’s school. Its an incredible luxury to do that for 16 years of your life while producing nothing of value.
- HPsquared 3y ago
  School, as experienced by most people, is definitely not a luxury. It's closer to an ordeal.
- argiopetech 3y ago
  16 years of schooling is a luxury only if you're getting something out of it and are intending to go to college. Otherwise, it's a prison (for the upper levels, at minimum). If you're not inclined to book learning or find yourself in a poor quality institution, an apprenticeship in a workplace/industry relevant to your interests could easily be a better fit.
andrewjl 3y ago
> but I find it difficult to believe that the most optimized, useful, and productive way to teach children about reality is the method we've settled on in the modern US. You're spot on, it isn't. That's by design. The foremost goal of a modern education system is creating a labor force[1][2] that meets the projected demands of the economy. What is interesting to think about is that over time the type of workforce the economy needs changes and how that interacts with changes in education policy. Don't get me wrong, there is value in trigonometry but I think classes on probability, statistics, and basic financial math like compound interest and so on are much more impactful when it comes to aggregate outcomes. I don't think it has to be an either or type of thing. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_school https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_school
- 3y ago