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I really like developing Rust with CLion: when I'm using C libs and Rust bindings, I can debug it seamlessly and efficiently. If RustRover [1], the dedicated Je

by jicea 3y ago

I really like developing Rust with CLion: when I'm using C libs and Rust bindings, I can debug it seamlessly and efficiently. If RustRover [1], the dedicated JetBrains IDE for Rust, doesn't support C/C++, It will be a showstopper for switching. [1]: https://www.jetbrains.com/rust/ https://www.jetbrains.com/rust/

self_awareness 3y ago
True, I've used CLion for a few years to do C++ and Rust dev, and I'm currently making an effort to check if VSCode meets my workflow. I don't want to buy another IDE just to have what I already had.
ActionHank 3y ago
There is also a push towards Rust on the web side of things too, it would be amazing to have a single language that could be used for both worlds
- it 3y ago
  Kotlin does this.
  - gavinray 3y ago
    As does Scala, Clojure, and C#.
- flohofwoe 3y ago
  That's already reality though, technically any language with WebAssembly support can be used in "both worlds". In reality of course it's a bit more than just compiler support, you'd want easy interop with Javascript and Web APIs and a working debugger. With the Emscripten SDK and Chrome's and VSCode's WASM DWARF support it's looking pretty good now at least for C and C++ (but I assume the WASM DWARF debugging stuff also works for Rust, since it's the same compiler infrastructure underneath).
  - zamalek 3y ago
    I have really tried using Rust for the web (because I truly enjoy Rust). The ergonomics just aren't there yet. Leptos, as a popular recent example, suffers from one major issue (that most others suffer from too): the JSX stuff is opaque to Rust Analyzer. Code completion aside, you lose the ability to hover - massively crippling any hope of tracking down how to resolve a type mismatch. Web Rust also has the impedance mismatch that Rust has for UI. There are several success stories - e.g. Cosmic Desktop, but I'm certain that there's more love than practicality involved. I think part of the reason is that we are trying to shove in existing patterns - which originate from OOP languages - into Rust. In both semantic and ergonomic terms I have been bitten by trying to OOP in Rust when I was first learning it. I think that there exists an (as yet unknown) solution to the UI problem. It's just going to look nothing like React (or Elm even).
the__alchemist 3y ago
I'm running into this. I had a versatile setup previously where PyCharm had first-class support with the main languages I used: Python, Rust, JS, CSS, HTML, TS. Now I'm working on a Rust + CUDA FFI project; RustRover has minimal support for the CUDA (essentially C++) code. It does syntax highlighting and comment-hotkey, but the introspection and refactoring appear inop. It would be nice if RustRover and CLion were combined.
- askonomm 3y ago
  JetBrains, if you're reading this: LionRover. You're welcome.
  - make3 3y ago
    You can even make the joke that you're guiding the LionRover from Space, their virtual desktop solution
- Xeamek 3y ago
  Clion + Rust plugin should have feature parity with RustRover, but not the other way around. Just switch to Clion and You'll problem will be solved
cmrdporcupine 3y ago
My annual renewal for CLion is coming up, and I need to make a decision. These days I only do Rust dev really. I'm not clear on what their plans are for ongoing Rust support in CLion going forward now that they're rolling out RustRover. Are they going to pull it?!
- nicce 3y ago
  The plugin is deprecated now, so I believe so.
  - zlurker 3y ago
    Yep, I got intellij to work with python/rust/scala and it's frustrating to see it pulled out like that. Not sure why they need to sell so many IDEs that are almost identical. Would've been happy with some upcharge for a "premium" plugin but I don't want to install three IDEs like they apparently want me to.
    - dijit 3y ago
      from what I understood there is “Intellij IDEA Ultimate” which allows you to enable all the features of the specific IDEs as if they are plugins.
      - rafaelmn 3y ago
        No, this only works for a few languages supported as plugins. Most of JetBrains IDEs are separate even if built on a same core. I have all products license and still can't use a single app to access all languages.
        zlurker 3y ago
        even with the supported plug-ins it's still not the same either. intellij with python plugin has just enough differences with it that it throws off some of my coworkers who use pycharm.
  - 3y ago
api 3y ago
My biggest gripe with JetBrains' lineup is the different "spins" for different languages. They should make a single IDE with plugins for many different languages to deliver a vastly superior experience to VSCode. Multi-language code bases aren't that uncommon either. As you say mixing C and Rust is common in apps and systems level programming. Mixing JavaScript, TypeScript, Go, and other languages like Python is also pretty common in web-centric stuff.
- dgfitz 3y ago
  Wasn’t this the model the Eclipse IDE uses/used?
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    No, JetBrains only makes some plugins available on specific IDE workloads, unless you buy InteliJ Ultimate. Whereas you get the whole experience on Eclipse out of the box. To keep in context, to this day you can't debug JNI on regular InteliJ, unless having CLion as well. Something that Netbeans and Eclipse support for at least 20 years now.
  - api 3y ago
    Yes, and that aspect of Eclipse was good. Eclipse was too bloated and its language support wasn't nearly as good as anything by Jetbrains. (It still exists but seems kind of dead outside Java shops.)
- byteknight 3y ago
  You're describing IntelliJ Ultimate.
- softjobs 3y ago
  https://www.jetbrains.com/fleet/ https://www.jetbrains.com/fleet/
  - api 3y ago
    Yeah that looks like the VSCode killer.

by jicea 3y ago

self_awareness 3y ago

True, I've used CLion for a few years to do C++ and Rust dev, and I'm currently making an effort to check if VSCode meets my workflow. I don't want to buy another IDE just to have what I already had.

ActionHank 3y ago

There is also a push towards Rust on the web side of things too, it would be amazing to have a single language that could be used for both worlds

it 3y ago
Kotlin does this.
- gavinray 3y ago
  As does Scala, Clojure, and C#.
flohofwoe 3y ago
That's already reality though, technically any language with WebAssembly support can be used in "both worlds". In reality of course it's a bit more than just compiler support, you'd want easy interop with Javascript and Web APIs and a working debugger. With the Emscripten SDK and Chrome's and VSCode's WASM DWARF support it's looking pretty good now at least for C and C++ (but I assume the WASM DWARF debugging stuff also works for Rust, since it's the same compiler infrastructure underneath).
- zamalek 3y ago
  I have really tried using Rust for the web (because I truly enjoy Rust). The ergonomics just aren't there yet. Leptos, as a popular recent example, suffers from one major issue (that most others suffer from too): the JSX stuff is opaque to Rust Analyzer. Code completion aside, you lose the ability to hover - massively crippling any hope of tracking down how to resolve a type mismatch. Web Rust also has the impedance mismatch that Rust has for UI. There are several success stories - e.g. Cosmic Desktop, but I'm certain that there's more love than practicality involved. I think part of the reason is that we are trying to shove in existing patterns - which originate from OOP languages - into Rust. In both semantic and ergonomic terms I have been bitten by trying to OOP in Rust when I was first learning it. I think that there exists an (as yet unknown) solution to the UI problem. It's just going to look nothing like React (or Elm even).

the__alchemist 3y ago

I'm running into this. I had a versatile setup previously where PyCharm had first-class support with the main languages I used: Python, Rust, JS, CSS, HTML, TS. Now I'm working on a Rust + CUDA FFI project; RustRover has minimal support for the CUDA (essentially C++) code. It does syntax highlighting and comment-hotkey, but the introspection and refactoring appear inop. It would be nice if RustRover and CLion were combined.

askonomm 3y ago
JetBrains, if you're reading this: LionRover. You're welcome.
- make3 3y ago
  You can even make the joke that you're guiding the LionRover from Space, their virtual desktop solution
Xeamek 3y ago
Clion + Rust plugin should have feature parity with RustRover, but not the other way around. Just switch to Clion and You'll problem will be solved

cmrdporcupine 3y ago

My annual renewal for CLion is coming up, and I need to make a decision. These days I only do Rust dev really. I'm not clear on what their plans are for ongoing Rust support in CLion going forward now that they're rolling out RustRover. Are they going to pull it?!

nicce 3y ago
The plugin is deprecated now, so I believe so.
- zlurker 3y ago
  Yep, I got intellij to work with python/rust/scala and it's frustrating to see it pulled out like that. Not sure why they need to sell so many IDEs that are almost identical. Would've been happy with some upcharge for a "premium" plugin but I don't want to install three IDEs like they apparently want me to.
  - dijit 3y ago
    from what I understood there is “Intellij IDEA Ultimate” which allows you to enable all the features of the specific IDEs as if they are plugins.
    - rafaelmn 3y ago
      No, this only works for a few languages supported as plugins. Most of JetBrains IDEs are separate even if built on a same core. I have all products license and still can't use a single app to access all languages.
      - zlurker 3y ago
        even with the supported plug-ins it's still not the same either. intellij with python plugin has just enough differences with it that it throws off some of my coworkers who use pycharm.
- 3y ago

api 3y ago

My biggest gripe with JetBrains' lineup is the different "spins" for different languages. They should make a single IDE with plugins for many different languages to deliver a vastly superior experience to VSCode. Multi-language code bases aren't that uncommon either. As you say mixing C and Rust is common in apps and systems level programming. Mixing JavaScript, TypeScript, Go, and other languages like Python is also pretty common in web-centric stuff.

dgfitz 3y ago
Wasn’t this the model the Eclipse IDE uses/used?
- pjmlp 3y ago
  No, JetBrains only makes some plugins available on specific IDE workloads, unless you buy InteliJ Ultimate. Whereas you get the whole experience on Eclipse out of the box. To keep in context, to this day you can't debug JNI on regular InteliJ, unless having CLion as well. Something that Netbeans and Eclipse support for at least 20 years now.
- api 3y ago
  Yes, and that aspect of Eclipse was good. Eclipse was too bloated and its language support wasn't nearly as good as anything by Jetbrains. (It still exists but seems kind of dead outside Java shops.)
byteknight 3y ago
You're describing IntelliJ Ultimate.
softjobs 3y ago
https://www.jetbrains.com/fleet/ https://www.jetbrains.com/fleet/
- api 3y ago
  Yeah that looks like the VSCode killer.