4 ms·

> How is it that we've become so bad at building? What industry would you prefer your children to go into? Construction or just about anything else?

theultdev 3y ago
So you prefer other people's children to do your construction, got it. That's fine.. I guess, but the world needs construction workers, including in America. If my son wanted to build nuclear reactors I'd be A-Okay with that.
- vinay427 3y ago
  Not the parent commenter, but I read their comment perhaps more charitably as describing a general societal attitude rather than their personal beliefs that they would instill on their children. No idea if I’m correct, but it’s maybe worth offering them the benefit of the doubt here.
  - theultdev 3y ago
    The general societal attitude is what influences their personal belief, and vice versa at scale. But their point remains the same, "let someone else do it" (the quiet part: "it's below us"). It's a very negative and elitist attitude that's prevalent in bubbles where people don't have to work normal jobs.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    I don't have and have never wanted children, so you are correct that it is not my personal belief. Yes, it's a question of the social status afforded to certain professions. The ones that actually build and maintain a functioning society seem low on that hierarchy. I'm willing to bet that the lawyers litigating whether or not a nuclear power plant will be built have have a higher income than the people who build it. This is my perception as someone from the working class who doesn't get one of those big FAANG salaries; they don't check that when you sign up here.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  Oh I'd prefer a lot of things that are never going to happen. It's more a question of social status - what pays more, construction worker, or lawyer who argues for/against construction?
  - theultdev 3y ago
    What was your point in asking this "question of social status"? Nothing in this thread points to lack of workers, but to over regulation. On a personal note, I'd prefer many less lawyers, especially the ones who argue against the one energy source that works. I'd prefer many more trade workers, much less in academics. I'd prefer people to not view jobs as a social status and appreciate the contributions people give to society. A plumber can make quite a bit of money, work up to their own business, not have to deal with huge amounts of debt, and actually provides needed services for society.
    - hotpotamus 3y ago
      https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Plumber-Salary-per-Month https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Plumber-Salary-per-Mon... A basketball player can make quite a bit of money playing basketball if they're exceptional. Looks like the national average for a plumber is about $60K/year. Most people on this forum would scoff at that if someone offered them that. It's actually about as much as my uncle, a heavy diesel mechanic, made before his untimely death. It's about what my father made when he retired. Why don't we build? Why don't we do anything; because it's more profitable not to I'm sure.
      - theultdev 3y ago
        60k/yr can support a family in a lot of areas. Most people in my area make around that. SWE is a bubble and can't really be applied to the rest of the workforce. A SWE would scoff at any other job because of this. We do have builders, there is overregulation that stops us from building. It's not the lack of workers.
        3y ago
- anon-3988 3y ago
  > If my son wanted to build nuclear reactors I'd be A-Okay with that. No no no no, we are talking about hard labor. I think OP is merely saying that there are jobs that no one wants to do, but they need to be done. So while everyone wish someone becomes the janitor, no one wants their own kid to become one (or whatever job you deem is less "respected"). This is not to say that I don't respect janitors, it is that I WISH i feel respect for them, but for whatever reason (nurture or nature) I simply don't feel respect for them and I constantly fight against this intuition.
delfinom 3y ago
Depending on the area, construction can pay really well and be a stable form of long term employment. Usually the trades part of construction is best rather than being a general laborer. In my area of NY suburbs, there's such a shortfall of tradesmen now due to boomer retirement en-masse, you see alot of younger guys showing up as plumbers, electricians, hvac and more that you would never ever have seen just 5 years ago. I wouldn't care if my own kids did it. As long as they figure out their life plan in advance, who cares.
- sumtechguy 3y ago
  I worked with one of the major HVAC companies in that area. There was not one dude under 50 in that building. 'we can not even get people to apply and we are throwing money at them'. That was 10 years ago. That may have changed by now. But probably not much.
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    How much money were they throwing? Enough to make you consider HVAC work?
    - sumtechguy 3y ago
      Me personally no. I have 20+ years doing what I do. I am paid decently for that. But fresh out of high school and willing to do the apprentice/mentor thing I probably would have considered it very compelling. It was 2-3x what I made starting what I do now.
      - hotpotamus 3y ago
        It's not a job I'd do either for a few reasons, principally marginal physical disability; something many tradesmen acquire and learn to live with, but to which I was essentially born. That said, if the job is so attractive to young people (I'm guessing primarily men), then why do you think that not much has changed in the intervening decade?
ibejoeb 3y ago
Why wouldn't you want your children to go into construction? I can't imagine what the prejudice against building things would be, especially essential things like energy infrastructure.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  Because of my direct experience in both construction and software development jobs.

theultdev 3y ago

So you prefer other people's children to do your construction, got it. That's fine.. I guess, but the world needs construction workers, including in America. If my son wanted to build nuclear reactors I'd be A-Okay with that.

vinay427 3y ago
Not the parent commenter, but I read their comment perhaps more charitably as describing a general societal attitude rather than their personal beliefs that they would instill on their children. No idea if I’m correct, but it’s maybe worth offering them the benefit of the doubt here.
- theultdev 3y ago
  The general societal attitude is what influences their personal belief, and vice versa at scale. But their point remains the same, "let someone else do it" (the quiet part: "it's below us"). It's a very negative and elitist attitude that's prevalent in bubbles where people don't have to work normal jobs.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  I don't have and have never wanted children, so you are correct that it is not my personal belief. Yes, it's a question of the social status afforded to certain professions. The ones that actually build and maintain a functioning society seem low on that hierarchy. I'm willing to bet that the lawyers litigating whether or not a nuclear power plant will be built have have a higher income than the people who build it. This is my perception as someone from the working class who doesn't get one of those big FAANG salaries; they don't check that when you sign up here.
hotpotamus 3y ago
Oh I'd prefer a lot of things that are never going to happen. It's more a question of social status - what pays more, construction worker, or lawyer who argues for/against construction?
- theultdev 3y ago
  What was your point in asking this "question of social status"? Nothing in this thread points to lack of workers, but to over regulation. On a personal note, I'd prefer many less lawyers, especially the ones who argue against the one energy source that works. I'd prefer many more trade workers, much less in academics. I'd prefer people to not view jobs as a social status and appreciate the contributions people give to society. A plumber can make quite a bit of money, work up to their own business, not have to deal with huge amounts of debt, and actually provides needed services for society.
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Plumber-Salary-per-Month https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Plumber-Salary-per-Mon... A basketball player can make quite a bit of money playing basketball if they're exceptional. Looks like the national average for a plumber is about $60K/year. Most people on this forum would scoff at that if someone offered them that. It's actually about as much as my uncle, a heavy diesel mechanic, made before his untimely death. It's about what my father made when he retired. Why don't we build? Why don't we do anything; because it's more profitable not to I'm sure.
    - theultdev 3y ago
      60k/yr can support a family in a lot of areas. Most people in my area make around that. SWE is a bubble and can't really be applied to the rest of the workforce. A SWE would scoff at any other job because of this. We do have builders, there is overregulation that stops us from building. It's not the lack of workers.
      - 3y ago
anon-3988 3y ago
> If my son wanted to build nuclear reactors I'd be A-Okay with that. No no no no, we are talking about hard labor. I think OP is merely saying that there are jobs that no one wants to do, but they need to be done. So while everyone wish someone becomes the janitor, no one wants their own kid to become one (or whatever job you deem is less "respected"). This is not to say that I don't respect janitors, it is that I WISH i feel respect for them, but for whatever reason (nurture or nature) I simply don't feel respect for them and I constantly fight against this intuition.

delfinom 3y ago

Depending on the area, construction can pay really well and be a stable form of long term employment. Usually the trades part of construction is best rather than being a general laborer. In my area of NY suburbs, there's such a shortfall of tradesmen now due to boomer retirement en-masse, you see alot of younger guys showing up as plumbers, electricians, hvac and more that you would never ever have seen just 5 years ago. I wouldn't care if my own kids did it. As long as they figure out their life plan in advance, who cares.

sumtechguy 3y ago
I worked with one of the major HVAC companies in that area. There was not one dude under 50 in that building. 'we can not even get people to apply and we are throwing money at them'. That was 10 years ago. That may have changed by now. But probably not much.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  How much money were they throwing? Enough to make you consider HVAC work?
  - sumtechguy 3y ago
    Me personally no. I have 20+ years doing what I do. I am paid decently for that. But fresh out of high school and willing to do the apprentice/mentor thing I probably would have considered it very compelling. It was 2-3x what I made starting what I do now.
    - hotpotamus 3y ago
      It's not a job I'd do either for a few reasons, principally marginal physical disability; something many tradesmen acquire and learn to live with, but to which I was essentially born. That said, if the job is so attractive to young people (I'm guessing primarily men), then why do you think that not much has changed in the intervening decade?

ibejoeb 3y ago

Why wouldn't you want your children to go into construction? I can't imagine what the prejudice against building things would be, especially essential things like energy infrastructure.

hotpotamus 3y ago
Because of my direct experience in both construction and software development jobs.