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Iran plans to unplug the Internet, launch its own "clean" alternative
- iRobot 15y ago"launch its own "clean" alternative" If I lived in Iran I don't think I would be renewing my ISP plan any time soon.
- narf2012 15y agosuch a wonderful country and great people, but government of crackpot thieving crooked perverts
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- ollerac 15y agoclearly the U.S. centric propaganda has gotten to you. which 1st world government isn't filled with crackpot thieving crooked perverts?
- yaix 15y agoMost of them. Power may be corrupting some of those who manage to get to the top, and some of those who get a majority of votes may not be the brightest, but most 1st world gov'ts are pretty honest. Not only because we have free media that is watching every step these people do and will make them resign at the smallest mistake. But, if you think that "they" are that bad, then you can just become one of "them" and do it better. I would recommend your local Pirate Party to start.
- daliusd 15y agoAs a person from former Soviet Union country I find downvotes for your comment both sad and funny.
- mindslight 15y ago> most 1st world gov'ts are pretty honest This is true, in the same way that I'd be honest if you were to ask me a simple yes/no question, and I responded with a page-long expression that took a day to evaluate to the actual answer. Which is why ... > you can just become one of "them" and do it better ... is doomed to fail. The problem isn't morals, it's unbounded complexity. People are just the substrate that the bureaucracy runs on. Feeding it ever-more people and resources (exponential technological growth) only compounds the fundamental problem - when something is not understandable, it's completely unaccountable.
- yaix 15y agoRead this and you'll stop being pessimistic :) http://falkvinge.net/2012/04/09/we-are-winning-how-pirate-parties-are-changing-the-world/ http://falkvinge.net/2012/04/09/we-are-winning-how-pirate-pa... It's only 5 years since the Pirate Parties started (first in Sweden), and it looks pretty good (in Germany they have now double diggits in the polls). Another 5 years and Pirates will be part of the gov't of several EU countries, I would guess.
- strlen 15y agoNo, their government isn't full of crooks and thieves. It's far worse, the Iranian government sincerely believe that they're actually making their citizens' lives better by what they do. Material riches won't soothe them: Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. C. S. Lewis
- mahmud 15y agoIf it succeeds, governments everywhere will be lining up to license the technology.
- mrleinad 15y agoWatch out for western governments/corporations that may want to "borrow" those kind of ideas.
- jakeonthemove 15y agoOh God, and what're they gonna do next, build their own microprocessors? Let's be real, they're going to become the next North Korea if this and their other isolationism plans succeed...
- dmk23 15y agoNo, next they'll build nukes and ballistic missiles. Not just for isolationism but for attacking their neighbors and manipulating world's oil supply. It is hard to see how a war with Iran can be avoided. EDIT: Anyone who is downvoting, please post an actual reasoned response on what exactly you disagree with.
- ollerac 15y agoThese are people just like us who are interested in self-preservation. Do you have any idea how many times the U.S. has completely screwed up their economy? The world isn't fair mostly because people can't stop fucking with each other.
- samic 15y agowho are you talking about?! in iran, government and people are two different things! and I have no doubt that if this government get his hands on an atomic bomb, the world will be in a big trouble! attacking iran is the best choice! hear it from an Iranian.
- ef4 15y agoFor one thing, the regime has been a fairly rational actor that does what's necessary to stay in power. You need to look at what they do, rather than what they say, which often has more to do with domestic politics. There's no doubt that actually launching a nuclear first strike would be the end of the regime, and they know it. But they still quite rationally want a nuclear deterrent so they can achieve a balance of power with Israel and insurance against an American invasion. So war is not a foregone conclusion, even if they really manage to build a nuclear weapon, and if they could credibly threaten to deliver it, which is much harder and not at all certain. Consider that a nation like China values stability and plays for the long term, and yet they've been willing to continue backing Iran. Clearly China has evaluated the Iranian regime and decided it's stable enough to rely on. My money is on China knowing what they're doing. The push for war has everything to do with the US and Israel wanting to maintain overwhelming military dominance. Iran is not a realistic threat to the existence of Israel or US security. But it's a threat to American regional hegemony.
- est 15y agoFor the love of IETF please just call it Intranet.
- Apocryphon 15y agoIranet, or the Intehranet.
- mcantelon 15y agoIt seems weird to me that the Iran-linked Hezbollah organization is renowned for its technological savvy, yet their allged paymasters are Iran.
- sliverstorm 15y agoJust because they cut off the general public, doesn't mean their governments and/or covert ops units won't have access.
- ChristianMarks 15y agoVery unlikely they would cut themselves off entirely. No email to or from Iran seems self defeating. I suppose they won't outsource censoring to the West. ;)
- siculars 15y agoGood. Let them blackhole themselves. This will obviously just motivate brilliant hackers to find brilliant ways around brilliantly moronic "policy."
- buu700 15y agoIf they're physically removing access to the Internet, the only way around it would be to physically restore access, which isn't exactly a matter of breaking through some firewalls or firing up Tor. The only realistic way I could see this working on a large scale is a very wealthy, motivated, and low-profile hacker somehow managing to string in fiber across the border from neighbouring countries, set up multiple wireless access points, and get a mesh network going across the country. On a small scale (say, for a hacker and his buddies or an underground resistance force), I suppose you'd only need to get a decent wireless-N access point near the border (in Turkey, perhaps?) broadcasting a WPA-encrypted hidden network, then have specific people in strategic locations running cheap wireless-N routers configured with Tomato or DD-WRT to act as repeaters. Obviously this isn't foolproof (hidden networks are easy to find if you're looking for them), it would be easy to cut off if it were discovered, and it would be slow as balls, but if you could manage to get a large enough chain going everywhere it needed to be, and its use were coordinated well enough to ensure that it would only be used in urgent situations (and only through Tor), then it could prove to be an invaluable resource. But yeah, Iran's people need another revolution, fast.
- icebraining 15y agoSupposedly, they'll still have an Intranet, it should be possible to tunnel internet connections over it to some hidden bridges.
- JumpCrisscross 15y ago»The only realistic way I could see this working is....stringing fibre across the border Or satellite Internet.
- buu700 15y ago
- ericabiz 15y agoWow. This is kind of like "The Truman Show" in a way. Imagine, being born there now, and your whole life you "access the Internet", without even realizing it's not actually the Internet. Truly warped.
- cpeterso 15y agoHow do I know if I'm using the Real Internet even now??
- Shank 15y agoWhat government would let a social news website through?
- RyanMcGreal 15y agoSmart dictatorships have always recognized the value of bread and circuses at keeping people occupied.
- philwelch 15y agoOh that's easy. Every social news site has a groupthink--if it doesn't have one naturally, crowdsourced moderation, i.e. upvotes and downvotes, will end up creating it. You just set things up so the groupthink either agrees with The Agenda or gets angry at issues that don't impact the ruling party's agenda. Then you have the illusion of free speech and democracy without any actual risk to the power structure. For instance, people on HN seem to get really worked up about the TSA, sexism in the tech industry, the war on drugs, and the privacy implications of Facebook and Google. If you were trying to protect a totalitarian state, do you really think any of those would be part of the agenda? Things like the TSA and war on drugs could be deliberately bad policy designed to distract the easily outraged. As for Facebook and Google, the worst thing they're going to do with your personal information is target advertisements at you. A totalitarian state would probably just build a system like Echelon.
- CodeMage 15y ago
- yaix 15y agoWill not happen. It would just make more people in Iran to become active in the oposition.
- pooriaazimi 15y agoYou have a rational mind, but my country isn't run by rational people...
- yaix 15y agoWhat they say publicly may not sound rational, but its pretty rare that somebody just ends up in the driving seat by chance.
- pooriaazimi 15y agoHundreds of billions of Oil dollars helps too!
- peykar 15y agoIt's April's fool (Doroogh-e Sizdah in Iran).
- ivarious 15y agoNow how could Iranian play Diablo III?
- pestaa 15y agoI'm quite sure this won't be their greatest concern.
- jkahn 15y agoA terrible blow for freedom in an already oppressive regime. Does this mean their public IPs go back into circulation?
- nmridul 15y agoWhat if we had lots of such parallel "internets" that are all accessible from around the world. That lets the user choose which "internet" to connect to. Something that can reduce the ICANN and the US control over the current network. After all, competition is always good. We now have such underground networks that is piggybacking on the existing internet.
- jakeonthemove 15y agoBut you're pretty much describing the Internet as it is now :-)... Each country having their own Internet separate from the rest of the world is counter-productive - I remember Russia wanted to introduce their own domain names in cyrillic and create some sort of Russian-only net a decade ago - the idea wasn't very popular with the people...
- kiiski 15y agoIf all the internets are accessible from anywhere, what exactly is the difference to the current situation? Each country already has its own infrastructure, which forms their own net, and is connected to the real internet. So is it really just separate IP/domain "namespaces" that you want?
- JumpCrisscross 15y agoThere is a bitter irony in how the technology that was supposed to bring us to a Friedmanite border-less world is also propelling us towards an Orwellian one where the power brokers can achieve omnipotence and force projection without, eventually, requiring the buy-in of a single human being. The problem is that techno-authoritarian systems, e.g. what N Korea is approaching, are very stable once properly assembled. The "human" regimes, i.e. liberal democracies, have to constantly fight against slipping into that horror. We need to find a way to change this equation because it asymptotically solves for a very dark future. From a systems theory perspective, the solution is ironically a random and sufficiently destructive agent - a joker.
- olalonde 15y ago> There is a bitter irony in how the technology that was supposed to bring us to a Friedmanite border-less world is also propelling us towards an Orwellian one where the power brokers can achieve omnipotence and force projection without, eventually, requiring the buy-in of a single human being. I disagree with this. You are still free not to use technology even in an "Orwellian regime". The Internet hasn't made things worse. Would you rather live in a country with no Internet at all or a country with their own Internet?
- JumpCrisscross 15y agoThe same network technology that makes the internet and applications on it possible enable mass surveillance, the intelligent processing of that data, and efficient execution on it as well. It isn't an either or question but an and one. Thus, it isn't that one can choose not to use technology and thus avoid its Orwellian repercussions as much as the existence of the choice in the first place implies both use cases (promoting freedom/connectivity and facilitating surveillance/oppression) exist. Your decision to participate or abstain has little bearing on an ambitious dictator's.
- stfu 15y agoNo Internet at all is surpassing a propaganda net. In order for people to stand up against oppression it helps when they can "feel the pain" and not have it muffled by some cheap painkiller substitutes.
- iamtoby2003 15y agoanother North Korea?
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- stupidsheep 15y agoerrr did anyone forget that our perfect western world is doing the exact same thing? sigh why do all the dumb nerds on here think they can comment on things they have absolutely no idea about either. regardless of how little wisdom most of you have, you don't even know the facts. also leave iran alone you monsters
- pooriaazimi 15y agoI guess your username speaks it all.
- Monotoko 15y agoVery constructive argument that told both sides and explained points very well, really got me thinking, thank you. :)
- harryf 15y agoThe title here slants the discussion somewhat. Reporters without borders presented it this way in their 2012 report; "Several times in 2011, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad, true to his nationalist policies, announced the creation of a national Web, a "clean" version of the Internet with its own search engine and messaging service. This may mean two different types of access, one for the authorities and another for the rest of the population" To me that implies stricter use of firewalls and launching national services for search and email. That's somewhat different to re-inventing the Internet, which I feel the title here implies.
- pooriaazimi 15y ago(I live in Iran an know quite a lot about this "national" Internet thing. Also check out this other submission: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3432816 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3432816) I haven't read this article yet, but believe me, they want to shut down Internet badly. They've been planning (and building the infrastructure and testing it) for the past three years. But you're quite right, they can't shut down the Internet completely, it will be there. But, the "national" Internet will be faster, and all official websites (news agencies, banks, etc.) will be forced to support it. I'm sure you won't believe it, but right now there's a cap for Internet access speed in Iran (128 Kbps: 128 Kilobits per second, or 16 KiloBytes per second). If you're a student or you can make a reasonable argument, you can go as high as 1 MBps (and an unmetered 1Mbps access costs about 130 dollars per month, so for most people it doesn't worth it). Now, imagine a cheap, 7 Mbps "national" Internet for everyone. The Internet can't compete with this new intranet... [Edit] fix typo
- mike-cardwell 15y ago"128 KiloBytes" per second is a 1Mbit connection... That's more than enough for most people unless you're a heavy video user. I think mine is about 8Mbit, but I doubt I'd notice if it dropped to 1Mbit. I'm not arguing for the cap. I'm just confused that you think a 1Mbit connection is somehow comically slow?
- 15y ago
- Shank 15y agoIf they were to go through with this, it would mean the end of economic growth, trade, and commerce with the rest of the world. It would be very hard if not impossible to transfer any large sum of money for trade purposes, unless they intend on giving merchants the ability to use the internet exclusively for payments. In reality though, a modern business is dead on arrival if they can't outside of the country for customers.
- TazeTSchnitzel 15y agoSame thing North Korea's done. They have a nationwide intranet where some organisations such as universities can request content from the Internet to be downloaded onto it.
- flixic 15y ago'The organization says that the system "consists of an Intranet designed ultimately to replace the international Internet and to discriminate between ordinary citizens and the 'elite' (banks, ministries and big companies), which will continue to have access to the international Internet."' As long as those with power are not willing to give up their own access to the internet, hackers will find a way to break the system.
- 4ad 15y agoIf only hackers can break the system, they won. See my other comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3821517 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3821517 This is not about how easy is for hackers to circumvent the system, this is about how effective is the system in stopping information flow for the masses.
- JVIDEL 15y agoGood luck with that: the great firewall of China doesn't works, you don't need to be a hacker to punch a hole through that POS system and the Iranians don't even have the manpower to make a firewall like that so whatever they do will be even lamer and full of holes. Besides there's the social factor: the Chinese are cool with their government for now because despite all the crap you hear they are still much better off than 20 or 30 years ago. Iran on the other hand is doing like shit, the embargo has destroyed their economy and the people has already revolted before, and the ayatollahs are scared shitless about the Arab Spring. This might be the last straw...
- 4ad 15y agoBut the great firewall of China works so well. Yes, it's trivially circumvented by anyone who knows how things works, but the vast majority of Chinese people don't fall in that category. The purpose of these systems is to keep the general population in the dark, it's not targeted at knowledgeable intellectuals. You can't keep them in the dark anyway and they already know. It's only point is to stop knowledge dissipating to the masses.
- Monotoko 15y agoI have a Chinese friend who is an average computer user, and knows about proxies that can bypass the firewall. I'd argue that the majority, especially young people, know how to bypass it whether they are hackers or your average computer user.
- maxwin 15y agoIf a chinese has a foreign friend and is able to communicate with you in English, then he/she is no where near average. He/she is probably an average among the middle or upper middle class, but definitely not an average among all chinese. However the bigger problem in China is not that they don't know how to bypass the firewall but that most people simply don't have the motivation to do so even if they know. The chinese version (copycat) like Baidu(google), Weibo(twitter) or youku (youtube) etc is simply good enough or better for them.
- woodall 15y agoThe Internet, as it currently is, needs to die. Just put a bullet in it's head an move on. It was a great starting point, but it's all monkey patches and quick 'fixes'; ala https, dns, et al. I auctually wanted SOPA to pass. Maybe it will get people thinking.