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The accounting for CO2 emissions is a bit lopsided. Why do you think developing nations are developing so quickly to become more like the US? The only reason is

The accounting for CO2 emissions is a bit lopsided. Why do you think developing nations are developing so quickly to become more like the US? The only reason is because they are aided through technologies developed by first-world countries in the first place, the reasons for which are primarily consumerist. If all first-world countries stopped producing so many things to consume and returned to simpler lifestyles, then there would be much less "development" in developing nations.

Retric 3y ago
> all first-world countries stopped producing so many things to consume and returned to simpler lifestyles, then there would be much less "development" in developing nations. When you say simpler lifestyles you mean higher infant mortality, poor sanitation, dirt roads, and all those other ills from poverty. Yes people living in the tropics also want AC, so do we. This isn’t about people in Bangladesh/US wanting an iPhone or designer clothing. Electronics barely move the CO2 needle, it’s things we take for granted like clean drinking water that takes massive infrastructure and tons of concrete.
- martin_drapeau 3y ago
  Good point. People often forget that the quality of life we have today comes from energy consumption and technological innovation. It all started with fire...
- vouaobrasil 3y ago
  I disagree. I mean less consumption of non-essential things like upgrades to smartphones every year, keeping 3G as opposed to 4G, 5G, no AI use, no plastic packaging, slower but functional internet, no imports of cheap things from China, no social media, etc. In other words: the reduction of mostly useless technologies on a voluntary basis. Less imported food instead of home-grown food, less imported clothes, less new things that replace perfectly good old things...
  - Retric 3y ago
    Again non of that has a particularly significant impact on climate change. Air travel, ICE cars, fossil fuel or municipal waste power plants, concrete, steel, etc matters. 3G vs 5G really really doesn’t. Grocery stores hand out plastic bags so happily because they are cheap. Stuff being cheap means it’s associated with very minimal CO2 because releasing CO2 means using a valuable resource. Further all that carbon in the bag ends up sequestered in a dump making plastic packaging a great way to use up oil reserves without burning them. PS: Upgrading phones every 2 years is like buying a car, that old phone generally gets traded in and someone else uses it instead of simply dumping it.
pdonis 3y ago
> If all first-world countries stopped producing so many things to consume and returned to simpler lifestyles, then there would be much less "development" in developing nations. And there would be much more poverty, disease, and death. Not to mention that we wouldn't be able to have this conversation since the medium in which we are having it requires an industrial, technological society, which "simpler lifestyles" can't support.

Retric 3y ago

> all first-world countries stopped producing so many things to consume and returned to simpler lifestyles, then there would be much less "development" in developing nations. When you say simpler lifestyles you mean higher infant mortality, poor sanitation, dirt roads, and all those other ills from poverty. Yes people living in the tropics also want AC, so do we. This isn’t about people in Bangladesh/US wanting an iPhone or designer clothing. Electronics barely move the CO2 needle, it’s things we take for granted like clean drinking water that takes massive infrastructure and tons of concrete.

martin_drapeau 3y ago
Good point. People often forget that the quality of life we have today comes from energy consumption and technological innovation. It all started with fire...
vouaobrasil 3y ago
I disagree. I mean less consumption of non-essential things like upgrades to smartphones every year, keeping 3G as opposed to 4G, 5G, no AI use, no plastic packaging, slower but functional internet, no imports of cheap things from China, no social media, etc. In other words: the reduction of mostly useless technologies on a voluntary basis. Less imported food instead of home-grown food, less imported clothes, less new things that replace perfectly good old things...
- Retric 3y ago
  Again non of that has a particularly significant impact on climate change. Air travel, ICE cars, fossil fuel or municipal waste power plants, concrete, steel, etc matters. 3G vs 5G really really doesn’t. Grocery stores hand out plastic bags so happily because they are cheap. Stuff being cheap means it’s associated with very minimal CO2 because releasing CO2 means using a valuable resource. Further all that carbon in the bag ends up sequestered in a dump making plastic packaging a great way to use up oil reserves without burning them. PS: Upgrading phones every 2 years is like buying a car, that old phone generally gets traded in and someone else uses it instead of simply dumping it.

pdonis 3y ago

> If all first-world countries stopped producing so many things to consume and returned to simpler lifestyles, then there would be much less "development" in developing nations. And there would be much more poverty, disease, and death. Not to mention that we wouldn't be able to have this conversation since the medium in which we are having it requires an industrial, technological society, which "simpler lifestyles" can't support.