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Signal Public Username Testing (Staging Environment)
- kome 3y agoThat's nice, but all of those features, such as usernames, make me understand how Telegram was so well-planned from scratch. Everybody has been catching up since. Telegram is really an impressive piece of software.
- khimaros 3y agolast i checked, Telegram was not end-to-end encrypted by default. has this changed?
- jacooper 3y agoNope.
- om154 3y agoTelegram at least offers end-to-end encrypted “Secret Chats”
- Moldoteck 3y agoThese are worse compared to signal chats. In signal, after login on say phone+ desktop, you'll have access to messages in secret chats on both devices(wish it would sync even if login on second device was later), on tg you are limited to only one
- tomtheelder 3y agoHN doesn’t like hearing this, but e2e encryption is kind of an anti-feature for the vast majority of users. The usability tradeoff is real, and most folks don’t care at all about the privacy/security side.
- Moldoteck 3y agoThing is, both can be achieved, but tg doesn't want to implement e2ee by default and signal doesn't want to implement a proper sync mechanism bc of some extra security(imo it's bs, extra security can be achieved with a proper implementation)
- alwayslikethis 3y agoI agree that Telegram is an impressive piece of software, but it does not offer E2EE by default and the encryption model has been criticized in the past. Still, it is the best chat app in wide use anywhere in the world and this is a great achievement. Among other things, the client is open source and they don't ban unofficial clients, and they don't restrict you to a certain number of devices like some much worse apps. The channels is also a nice innovation, and Telegram has seemingly remained reasonably unwilling to comply on government encroachment (used by both sides in the Russo-Ukrainian war without too much suspicion). This is probably as well as a centralized chat app can ever do.
- jlokier 3y agoI wouldn't say it doesn't offer E2EE by default. It offers private chats, which are E2EE, right there and almost as easy to initiate as the regular chats. I used Telegram in E2EE mode with someone initially, but later we decided the multi-device sync and web chat were so much more useful to us, it trumped the desirability of E2EE and we switched. Those features together would be better of course.
- newscracker 3y agoApps like Signal and Wire have shown that multi-device E2EE is possible with messages synced across. While I believe that Telegram is far ahead on a lot of features, the lack of multi-device sync for “secret chats” is mainly because Telegram hasn’t spent enough time or effort on it.
- 1ark 3y agoI was looking into (toying with) making a decentralized version of TDlib. Of course a lot of effort, but possible. Telegram has some of the best clients, and FOSS. Forking those with a new TDlib would be "best" of both worlds. Session did something similar with Signal clients as a base.
- codethief 3y ago> Telegram was so well-planned from scratch Uhm what? It's 2023 and they still don't do e2e encryption by default. Building a chat application without e2ee is orders of magnitude easier than with. And let's not talk about MTProto…
- Barrin92 3y agobecause there's real usability tradeoffs. Signal's local encryption means there's no history sharing on new devices and essentially loss of the data should you ever lose the device/key, and that for many people is a deal breaker.
- leetcrew 3y agoI know only enough about crypto to be dangerous, but it's never been clear to me why that's such a hard technical limitation. my password manager is very easy to set up on a new device if I have another authenticated device on hand. if not, it's still not too onerous to set up the first sync. why wouldn't the same approach work for signal?
- tapoxi 3y agoIt does, if you set up Signal Desktop it involves scanning a QR code. It doesn't sync old messages, theoretically they could do that over a local network transfer.
- jlokier 3y agoIndeed it's possible, though judging by the release dates, it's not trivial to do right: - Apple implemented iMessage E2EE sync across devices back in 2011. But be careful not to save your chat keys in iCloud backups (local backups are fine), unless you enable E2EE for iCloud backups as well, which is an option rolled out in 2023. - WhatsApp appears to have rolled out a form of E2EE device sync in 2023 as well. WhatsApp Web complicates the question of how secure is the E2EE though.
- wolverine876 3y ago> Signal's local encryption means there's no history sharing on new devices and essentially loss of the data should you ever lose the device/key To be clear, Signal now allows secure backups to the cloud. If you don't use a strong password, and much as the public won't, it's not perfect but they maximize the security. (And you can always choose to not use the backup.)
- chatmasta 3y agoMy favorite feature of Telegram is that the default onboarding experience uploads your entire contact list to a server in Russia.
- 1ark 3y agoTelegram servers are hosted worldwide, mainly US and EU. With HQ in Dubai.
- robertjglick 3y agoThey still be shaddy, for example being persecuted by a government for your Faith. They turn over all your Contacts and ip addresses of your contacts so now all your friends can be persecuted... Substitute faith for: whatever...
- 1ark 3y agoAre these statements verifiable? Honestly interested to learn more about every argument against Telegram.
- robertjglick 3y agohttps://archive.is/oNfNo https://archive.is/oNfNo https://archive.is/uE4ed https://archive.is/uE4ed I won't give specific since I use my real name.
- OfSanguineFire 3y agoTelegram's "headquarters in Dubai" is just a legal fiction, a registered address only. A journalist who visited that supposed headquarters found no one at home.
- 1ark 3y agoFine. But where is the truth in that it is sent to Russian servers? Perfectly open to any evidence.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jacooper 3y agoIt seems this won't remove the requirement for a phone number, rather it will serve as an alternative ID of sorts, same way Telegram does it now, they no longer allow signing up without a number.
- 1ark 3y agoFor Telegram I think they try to make a case for TON. In TON you can buy a special phone number that can be used for Telegram, and therefore (pseudo)anonymous.
- pcchristie 3y agoCorrect me if I'm wrong but Telegram never allowed sign up without username? I've had it for a long long time and it was always centred around phone numbers. I could be wrong.
- jacooper 3y agoI think for a brief period it was allowed but as an alternative option, then they removed it.
- notfed 3y agoWhat's the motivation? Is it to avoid needing to share phone numbers? Will phone numbers be private after this?
- Arnt 3y agoAccording to rumour: Yes and no. Some people really cared about not publishing their phone numbers, and Signal emphasises user compatibility. In a way, Signal aims for the best security that an IM can provide while being usable for a wide audience.
- wolverine876 3y agoPeople have long complained that Signal violated their privacy by requiring them to hand out phone numbers. With someone's phone number you can discover everything about them, even location - it's possibly the most valuable ID. For example, imagine you are a young female giving contact information to someone on a temporary basis; you might not want to hand out your phone number everywhere.
- 8note 3y agoEspecially when signal can't even make phone calls or text messages, there's no need for it to know my phone number
- worldsavior 3y agoIt can...
- OfSanguineFire 3y agoIt can't. Signal calls are over the internet, not the PSTN. And Signal removed SMS support last year.
- illiac786 3y agojust use a landline from some phone booth, done. You only need it to create the account, never again after that.
- bsimpson 3y agoI have my HN name @gmail.com, but I've never used it, because the amount of junk/mistakes I get from people who don't understand what their email address is. I wonder how bad that problem would be for me with the same name on Signal. I also wonder about personas. Are there privacy ramifications to which name you pick? Can you pick multiple so community X knows you as A and Y knows you as B? Sounds kinda silly, but for a private-by-default messenger, there are interesting UX problems.
- jamies 3y agoI have a similar address. I’m sure you can guess. It’s insane how much daily mail I get that isn’t for me. I get completed contracts, credit card statements, you name it. One thing I occasionally do after a beer or two is reset someone’s password using my email address — just revenge in my opinion.
- drewmol 3y ago>Reset someone's password using my email address How does that work?
- bombcar 3y agoIf someone signs up with your email, you can trigger a password reset and it sends an email - to you.
- drewmol 3y agoAhh I didn't grok that, Thx it makes sense now.
- bogota 3y agoThey setup the account with his email on accident because it’s likely close to a lot of other emails. Essentially it’s his account although legally I don’t know how that would go if say you emptied someones bank account
- 3y ago
- kfogel 3y agoThe linked page is on signalusers.org, but Signal's regular home site is https://signal.org/ https://signal.org/. I'm looking all over signal.org for some link from there to signalusers.org, as that would make me more relaxed about the authenticity of the latter -- i.e., that it really is run by the same people who run signal.org. Yes, maybe I'm being paranoid. But we're talking about an app whose whole purpose is secure communications :-).
- ryeights 3y agohttps://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android#contributing-code https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android#contributing-cod... >For larger changes and feature ideas, we ask that you propose it on the [unofficial Community Forum](https://community.signalusers.org/ https://community.signalusers.org/) for a high-level discussion with the wider community before implementation. So it’s almost certainly legit, but they really should be linking to signal.org proper for sign-up instructions.
- Vinnl 3y agoProper signup instructions probably also shouldn't point to the staging environment :) So the real signup instructions are still on signal.org.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- windthrown 3y agoThat's a valid concern! At the bottom of signal.org, under "Help", Community" links to signalusers.org
- wolverine876 3y agoDid they post anywhere how the pulled it off, overcoming the obstacles that held up this feature (which I don't remember, other than they were legit)?
- wolverine876 3y agoThis seems to be part of the plan, or was. On a technical level, it is fascinating reading: https://signal.org/blog/secure-value-recovery/ https://signal.org/blog/secure-value-recovery/
- robertjglick 3y agoWow this is really nice I downloaded the app and yes you need a number to verify to signup but you can choose to not share your number to groups and you can turn off the ability to find you by your number. And only use your username.
- james105 3y agoWhere can I download staging app for signal
- nikolay 3y agoTerrible Discord-like idea of username plus 2-digit extension! First, 2-digits is not enough. How many Johns are out there? What's the point of having just 100 Johns? Either make it unique or not without hardcoding this numerical extension madness!