16 ms·

Amazon expects me to weaken my physical security posture to help them defend against an activity I don't engage in and is in no way my responsibility? AND Cha

• SpicyLemonZest 3y ago
  They're building and deploying those boxes through the Amazon Hub program. There's no single-family size yet though.
  • barryrandall 3y ago
    That's still an Amazon problem.
  • hughesjj 3y ago
    I think you can do it with Luxor one but similar issues exist (ex oversized packages, large cost and area required)
  • patmorgan23 3y ago
    There are vendors that will sell you a single home package locker. I believe parcel pending is one.
• NavinF 3y ago
  Are you trolling? In-garage delivery is obviously an optional feature and one that usually costs extra (Eg Walmart InHome is $20/mo)
  • TeMPOraL 3y ago
    It's a feature that benefits Amazon more than the customer, but that's OK. Problem is, it comes with significant undisclosed extra costs, that GP listed. Were Amazon and Chamberlain to honestly disclose these costs, I doubt anyone would be willing to adopt this "feature" - which should be quite telling.
• godelski 3y ago
  I also find a bit of irony given how much fraud there is on Amazon's own website. There's got to be far cheaper solutions that result in far higher revenues. Of course Chamberlain doesn't have access to this revenue stream, but I'm sure there are other things that they can do like charging for an API key or better yet, charging Amazon for an enterprise token (which users can disable!). Since it seems they're willing to take on the security risks... because the current solution clearly doesn't actually resolve the issue. I can't imagine anyone that understands how to use HA wouldn't understand how to use ratgdo so I'm not sure they're realistically changing revenue outcomes. About Amazon, how fucking hard is it to use a fucking Naive Bayes classifier to just check if product title or description changes significantly? Hell, do it with Babbage or some other (not L)LM that's cheap as fuck. We already have clear leaks showing that they fuck over sellers with their price lockins, are you really hurting them more by dropping all those product reviews? You can also do way better by using an image classifier. I have a hard time believing a company that's bragging about how many robots it uses in its warehouses and replaces shitty support with even shittier LLMs is not going to actually result in higher profits by doing this. A few returns probably covers the cost because shipping is expensive (something they already don't get right. Haven't had 2 day prime delivered in 2 days since 2018...) Also, anyone else find it weird that stores on Amazon don't list all their products? Like you can click on the store page from the product and then that product is nowhere to be found. Want to reduce scams? Force the listing of their entire product directory. I already can't rely on reviews, you just are making it harder to trust you. I really do wish there was a halfway decent alternative to Amazon. Even Target and Walmart's online stores are more attractive, just limited. But this seems to be a generally sucky space and I don't understand why. Don't even get me started on NewEgg... > Money is one hell of a drug because they are high. They're so high they're even turning down higher profits. But I guess the issue is caring FAR more about short term profits (quarterly statements) than long term (hell, even a fucking year). I really don't get this metric hacking bullshit bureaucracy we've built (and its not just isolated to the US or the West).
  • ethbr1 3y ago
    > But [online retail] seems to be a generally sucky space and I don't understand why. Because the margins are incredibly low (thanks, Walmart and Amazon?), which means you need capital-heavy hyperefficient warehousing/distribution to even compete, which means you need scale, which means there's little competition to make things better.
• derefr 3y ago
  > How about amazon builds (at their expense) an amazon controlled box, slap a mcu on, do authentication over nfc, rfid, etc etc. Offer it to customers free of charge, hell throw in a sweetener to get them to adopt. I mean, they already do exactly this — this is what Amazon Lockers are. It's just only seemingly worth it to Amazon to deploy them to commercial customers, e.g. at post offices, in front of Whole Foods locations, in some very large apartment building complexes, etc. (My own guess as to why the economics don't work out for individual residences, is that a hypothetical smaller locker — one small enough to fit on a porch — would also inherently be lightweight enough for thieves to just cart away wholesale.)
  • TeMPOraL 3y ago
    And yet somehow here in Poland we have like 5+ companies (InPost, Allegro, several delivery services and even Orlen - the gas station operator - of all things!) one-upping each other in placing parcel lockers on every flat piece of land that's too small for developers to build an apartment block on. I have 10+ of such lockers within 5 minutes walk of my apartment. Now how is that possible?
    • derefr 3y ago
      You're talking about the commercial parcel lockers — the ones that fit a whole neighbourhood's deliveries, that are therefore essentially big sturdy metal storage racks underneath — too big and heavy to just pick up and walk away with. Every country has these to some degree; I imagine they're most popular in places that 1. have colder climates, but 2. where people don't tend to drive (like Poland?) The US has some, but the suburban long-distance-commute car culture + generally not-too-bad climate, means that people in the US generally expect to pick up packages from further away, and so implementation of these in the US has lagged behind other countries. However, my comment, and the one it was replying to, are talking about something else — a hypothetical concept of small lockers that serve single homes, given to the homeowner, to be located near the home's mailbox/mailslot. (Basically, logistics-provider-provided versions of these things that you can technically buy online — but where I've never seen anyone with one: https://www.amazon.ca/WeHere-Package-Delivery-Anti-Theft-Password/dp/B09GJJ9LKB/ https://www.amazon.ca/WeHere-Package-Delivery-Anti-Theft-Pas...). And the thing about these is... they really aren't a good idea. They're not too big and heavy to just steal. Anyone who can walk up to your porch with a moving dolly can walk away with it.
• immibis 3y ago
  Welcome to capitalism.
• tzs 3y ago
  > Amazon expects me to weaken my physical security posture to help them defend against an activity I don't engage in and is in no way my responsibility? Most people get quite irked when someone steals their Amazon package between the time it was left at their door and the time they actually try to get the package. Hence for most people who occasionally receive Amazon packages when no one is home to quickly take it inside a way to let Amazon put the package in their locked garage is a benefit. > How about amazon builds (at their expense) an amazon controlled box, slap a mcu on, do authentication over nfc, rfid, etc etc. Offer it to customers free of charge, hell throw in a sweetener to get them to adopt. Like Amazon Lockers? That's not as convenient as delivery to your home. Or do you mean they should provide lockers to individual homes? I'm not sure that would work. If the home locker was not very heavy or very securely attached to something immovable package thieves would just steal the lockers.
  • TeMPOraL 3y ago
    > I'm not sure that would work. If the home locker was not very heavy or very securely attached to something immovable package thieves would just steal the lockers. How expensive pouring some concrete into a small hole in the ground would be? Or would this become real estate then, or otherwise require a construction permit?
    • sbarre 3y ago
      Renters would not be able to do this.
      • Qwertious 3y ago
        Don't be lazy - if renters offered a few grand to their landlord then they could; plus the cost of construction materials, inspection and labor. The problem is that it's prohibitively expensive compared to just eating the cost of any thefts, keeping an eye on pickup times so you (or a family member) can take the package inside ASAP, and using pick-up for any truly expensive ($1k+) items when possible.
• gorgoiler 3y ago
  Are you upset with Amazon for hypothetically refusing to deliver to your home unless you give them a virtual key fob to your garage? Let’s just take a step back here and recognise that we’re asking online retailers to leave our deliveries outside our homes, with direct access to members of the public, but we’re also asking for them to assume responsibility if the packages are stolen. Morally, in isolation, it’s not a very defensible position for the consumer to take. I personally don’t feel so bad about it when it’s Amazon — they can afford it, basically — but in general it’s not realistic for porch pirates to be anyone else’s problem except the consumer’s.
  • yrro 3y ago
    This sounds totally mad to me. If I order something for delivery, it is the retailer's responsibility to deliver it to me. If they leave it where it is stolen before it's in my posession than that is not my problem. Were it any other way I would not order anything online!
  • XorNot 3y ago
    I think the point is that there's little reason to trust that you would not simply be robbed either by them leaving the garage open, or robbing it themselves. If Amazon want to leave packages securely, then I am more then happy for them to partner with mail carriers and other delivery services and come up with a common standard for an externally secure lockbox system*. But they're not getting an open door into my house. The problem in the delivery space is everyone does whatever - there's no standard or common code for communicating secure delivery logic for a premises. You can come up with whatever and it just won't be used. But "give me access to inside your private property" is one of the more insane solutions given that a garage is not an unvaluable area, nor necessarily a non-hazardous one.
  • citizenkeen 3y ago
    I would happily check a box that says "deliver to human being, if none home try again tomorrow".
  • jabroni_salad 3y ago
    something like 50% of the time I try to redirect a fedex package to walgreens (local drugstsore) the retailer has that feature disabled. I'm sure they have a great reason for it but it seems that putting the package unsigned on my doorstep is specifically the service that they are choosing and I do not have a choice nor do I get to find out about it until after the order has shipped.
• TheCapeGreek 3y ago
  I find it odd that the standard policy is to leave packages unattended in any form in the first place. This is another one of those things that is not standard globally. E.g for us in South Africa, this would be unthinkable, regardless of how much time it saves the delivery company. The only time a parcel is left at the door is when it's UberEats. Otherwise delivery is rescheduled if we don't physically collect parcels in person. This is partly an access issue (many houses/apartments/estates have gated access) and largely a trust/crime issue.
  • vladvasiliu 3y ago
    Here in France that would be unthinkable, too. But the US still seems to have some remnants of a high trust society, which has been only a temporary thing in many places, if at all. Not having such a society adds frictions in all kind of interactions. In the end, that means cost. I can understand why people and company try to shift that cost when it comes up in areas where it wasn't present beforehand.
    • brabel 3y ago
      Here in Sweden, you can agree to let the delivery company just leave the package by the front door, but it's only common for low value things. Most things are delivered to your nearest post office counter (usually in your closest supermarket) and recently, to a locked postbox nearby which you unlock online with their app.
      • bravura 3y ago
        Here in Berlin Germany, packages are given to whichever neighbor in your apartment building happens to reply to the buzzer fastest, typically the ground floor ones. (Elevators are also uncommon.) I'm friends with all my neighbors but I find this practice completely bizarre.
        • DeepSeaTortoise 3y ago
          Here in Buxtehofen, Bavaria, packages are left dangling from trees with a sign saying "I've hung up your rolex, so it wont be dragged of by boars while you're on vacation". And when you're back from hiking the Alps your neighbor will have build a shed around it to protect it from the rain and moved in 10 of his pigs to keep it warm. Unless of course your delivery guy tied your package to a special tree called Maibaum by mistake. Then you'll find a sign telling you that it has been redirected to one of the 5 villages called Kirchberg in your area.
• rtkwe 3y ago
  Labelling the garage delivery as only to Amazon's benefit is a bit disingenuous. Package theft is a pretty bad issue in many places so having deliveries dropped behind a locked door is also a benefit to the user. As for your security concern it's not unfounded but if your garage is built like most in the US there's probably already a locking exterior grade door between it and the outside because a garage door isn't that great as a security barrier to begin with unless you remove the pull cord that unlocks the door from the carrier.