4 ms·

A picture is worth a thousand permissions requests

94 points by ingve 3y ago

Mad_ad 3y ago
Mac OSX is getting worse every update, using OSX since 2012 and every update is worse than the last one when you look at the "security features"
lapcat 3y ago
Of course this always brings to mind Apple's "Get a Mac" commercial parodying Windows Vista. Many years later, Apple has now become the parody. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxOIebkmrqs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxOIebkmrqs
- simonbarker87 3y ago
  I also often think of this when I’m allowing yet another app to do something that I clearly want it to do. “I see you’ve clicked the documents folder via this apps open dialog. Do you want to give it permission to access that folder that you just clicked on to access” infuriating. What’s so annoying is that these constant alerts make the system potentially less secure as you get notification blindness. Same with how often iOS pops up the password dialog, you get so used to entering your password that it takes conscious effort to not do it by default an actually make sure it’s a legit password box and not a phish.
- dwaite 3y ago
  Difference is that Microsoft loosened the prompts. Apple will likely solve the problem by removing the capability to assign those permissions, at least through UI
pacifika 3y ago
They could group them by app in some kind of list. But are all these required just to launch the apps or can they wait until you activate it?
- ehutch79 3y ago
  You just don't get access to the resource in the app. Like if you deny the calendar app from reading all your contacts, it works as if you didn't have any contacts.
- antoniojtorres 3y ago
  Interesting idea. I imagine they could go in some sort of permissions drawer/ list that has a badge letting you know an app is waiting. Any app that you’re currently interacting with and is up front could pop the dialog the same way it does now. I prefer to maintain the security issues and look for a UX solution.
lifeisstillgood 3y ago
Weird - I thought some genius had come up with a way of combining all the permissions you have given in one ssh-key like colour grid. I think of all these app permissions (I have similar thoughts looking at iphone settings) as being some sort of Marie Kondo epiphany - I don't need a better UI - I need less stuff.
andrelaszlo 3y ago
I recently switched my work laptop from a ThinkPad running Arch to a MacBook Air M2. I was very efficient in my Arch environment that I have tweaked gradually for over a decade so I was quite reluctant to make the move. Trying to keep an open mind, I told myself that at least I will get the pleasure of using the amazingly intuitive and beautiful UIs that Apple have been tweaking since before I was even born! Imagine my disappointment. Simple things are slow and annoying. Difficult things are impossible. Something so basic as moving a file between two directories. Can you Command-X, Command-V it? No. If both folders are open in Finder tabs you can drag the file to the tab, then wait for a blinking animation to complete before you are allowed to drop it into the target folder. I guess you should open both folders as separate windows and then drag. But that creates even more windows, and window management in Macos is just impossible to tweak, so you are forced to use Apple's weird gesture-based paradigm. It might feel productive since you make so many animations happen but switching to the window you're thinking of should - and could - take fractions of a second and feel like an extension of your mind but in this new reality it's more like choreographing a bizarre window ballet even when you get used to it. Things could be so much better. But hey, the hardware seems pretty good.
- SonOfLilit 3y ago
  The first thing one installs on every mac is Rectangle. (and then brew). I use Cmd+X Cmd+V all the time, so I'm quite confused by your issue. But indeed Total Commander is the thing I miss the most.
  - edanm 3y ago
    Try Nimble Commander. After years of searching, it's the closest Mac replacement for Total Commander that I've found, it's really great.
  - renewiltord 3y ago
    Finder does not support Cmd-X. Only Cmd-C and Cmd-V (and Cmd-Option-V).
    - 3y ago
ehutch79 3y ago
Not all these dialogs are permissions. There's a 'this app is corrupted', and an app it self asking for where it's custom plugins are. One of the big windows in the background is an app splashscreen. I'd say this is a bit disingenuous. It's frustrating to see people complaining, but not offering any ideas for improvement, just 'this sucks, fix it'.
- frabcus 3y ago
  The fix is pretty obvious - migration assistant should copy granted app permissions across.
  - crazydoggers 3y ago
    Some of these issues, like the corruption, is probably due to having 3rd party kernel extensions enabled. One of the pop ups shown even shows that explicitly. I had the same issue for a raid controller app. That needs to be updated on the new machine hardware by holding the power button and changing to reduced security to enable the kext loading. If someone installed apps with kernel extensions, disabling enhanced security on the hardware, then Id argue they should be competent enough to understand the issue, so the article is a bit disingenuous on that front. Additionally, things like Apple ID for iCloud login require re-logging with 2 factor, again because the hardware has updated. So there’s probably a cleaner UI model here that could run the user through all of these side cases, but it’s not as simply as copying app permissions (all of the unix level file permissions remain intact already)
- jdgoesmarching 3y ago
  I guarantee most people who work in product or software are far more interested in hearing problems than half baked solutions. It’s actually quite frustrating when someone gives me their solution and I have to reverse engineer the actual issue.
scblock 3y ago
OK, and?
apozem 3y ago
I recently experienced something similar. My Macbook had its logic board replaced and, as part of that, the OS was wiped. I restored it from a Time Machine backup and spent too long digging through the settings to make sure the correct apps had accessibility permission or screen sharing permission or full disk permissions. It was annoying and the not the kind of polished experience you want from a premium product.
nkotov 3y ago
I'm in the process right now of moving from a M2 MacBook Air to a M3 MacBook Pro. I was going to use Migration Assistant but decided last minute against it and decided to "rebuild" from scratch. I'm three hours in on re-setting everything up the way I want it. Does it suck? Yes. But I know exactly what I installed and gives me the ability to purge things I no longer need.
- alpaca128 3y ago
  Recently a relative decided to use Huawei's migration app for the new phone. It deleted all music files. At least now I know my paranoia with such magic features wasn't unfounded.
say_it_as_it_is 3y ago
Okta reinvented the TLS wheel and put a single SAAS provider into the middle of the wheel to manage it for you. They also added identity and access control from the center.

94 points by ingve 3y ago

Mac OSX is getting worse every update, using OSX since 2012 and every update is worse than the last one when you look at the "security features"

lapcat 3y ago

Of course this always brings to mind Apple's "Get a Mac" commercial parodying Windows Vista. Many years later, Apple has now become the parody. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxOIebkmrqs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxOIebkmrqs

simonbarker87 3y ago
I also often think of this when I’m allowing yet another app to do something that I clearly want it to do. “I see you’ve clicked the documents folder via this apps open dialog. Do you want to give it permission to access that folder that you just clicked on to access” infuriating. What’s so annoying is that these constant alerts make the system potentially less secure as you get notification blindness. Same with how often iOS pops up the password dialog, you get so used to entering your password that it takes conscious effort to not do it by default an actually make sure it’s a legit password box and not a phish.
dwaite 3y ago
Difference is that Microsoft loosened the prompts. Apple will likely solve the problem by removing the capability to assign those permissions, at least through UI

pacifika 3y ago

They could group them by app in some kind of list. But are all these required just to launch the apps or can they wait until you activate it?

ehutch79 3y ago
You just don't get access to the resource in the app. Like if you deny the calendar app from reading all your contacts, it works as if you didn't have any contacts.
antoniojtorres 3y ago
Interesting idea. I imagine they could go in some sort of permissions drawer/ list that has a badge letting you know an app is waiting. Any app that you’re currently interacting with and is up front could pop the dialog the same way it does now. I prefer to maintain the security issues and look for a UX solution.

lifeisstillgood 3y ago

Weird - I thought some genius had come up with a way of combining all the permissions you have given in one ssh-key like colour grid. I think of all these app permissions (I have similar thoughts looking at iphone settings) as being some sort of Marie Kondo epiphany - I don't need a better UI - I need less stuff.

andrelaszlo 3y ago

I recently switched my work laptop from a ThinkPad running Arch to a MacBook Air M2. I was very efficient in my Arch environment that I have tweaked gradually for over a decade so I was quite reluctant to make the move. Trying to keep an open mind, I told myself that at least I will get the pleasure of using the amazingly intuitive and beautiful UIs that Apple have been tweaking since before I was even born! Imagine my disappointment. Simple things are slow and annoying. Difficult things are impossible. Something so basic as moving a file between two directories. Can you Command-X, Command-V it? No. If both folders are open in Finder tabs you can drag the file to the tab, then wait for a blinking animation to complete before you are allowed to drop it into the target folder. I guess you should open both folders as separate windows and then drag. But that creates even more windows, and window management in Macos is just impossible to tweak, so you are forced to use Apple's weird gesture-based paradigm. It might feel productive since you make so many animations happen but switching to the window you're thinking of should - and could - take fractions of a second and feel like an extension of your mind but in this new reality it's more like choreographing a bizarre window ballet even when you get used to it. Things could be so much better. But hey, the hardware seems pretty good.

SonOfLilit 3y ago
The first thing one installs on every mac is Rectangle. (and then brew). I use Cmd+X Cmd+V all the time, so I'm quite confused by your issue. But indeed Total Commander is the thing I miss the most.
- edanm 3y ago
  Try Nimble Commander. After years of searching, it's the closest Mac replacement for Total Commander that I've found, it's really great.
- renewiltord 3y ago
  Finder does not support Cmd-X. Only Cmd-C and Cmd-V (and Cmd-Option-V).
  - 3y ago

ehutch79 3y ago

Not all these dialogs are permissions. There's a 'this app is corrupted', and an app it self asking for where it's custom plugins are. One of the big windows in the background is an app splashscreen. I'd say this is a bit disingenuous. It's frustrating to see people complaining, but not offering any ideas for improvement, just 'this sucks, fix it'.

frabcus 3y ago
The fix is pretty obvious - migration assistant should copy granted app permissions across.
- crazydoggers 3y ago
  Some of these issues, like the corruption, is probably due to having 3rd party kernel extensions enabled. One of the pop ups shown even shows that explicitly. I had the same issue for a raid controller app. That needs to be updated on the new machine hardware by holding the power button and changing to reduced security to enable the kext loading. If someone installed apps with kernel extensions, disabling enhanced security on the hardware, then Id argue they should be competent enough to understand the issue, so the article is a bit disingenuous on that front. Additionally, things like Apple ID for iCloud login require re-logging with 2 factor, again because the hardware has updated. So there’s probably a cleaner UI model here that could run the user through all of these side cases, but it’s not as simply as copying app permissions (all of the unix level file permissions remain intact already)
jdgoesmarching 3y ago
I guarantee most people who work in product or software are far more interested in hearing problems than half baked solutions. It’s actually quite frustrating when someone gives me their solution and I have to reverse engineer the actual issue.

scblock 3y ago

OK, and?

apozem 3y ago

I recently experienced something similar. My Macbook had its logic board replaced and, as part of that, the OS was wiped. I restored it from a Time Machine backup and spent too long digging through the settings to make sure the correct apps had accessibility permission or screen sharing permission or full disk permissions. It was annoying and the not the kind of polished experience you want from a premium product.

nkotov 3y ago

I'm in the process right now of moving from a M2 MacBook Air to a M3 MacBook Pro. I was going to use Migration Assistant but decided last minute against it and decided to "rebuild" from scratch. I'm three hours in on re-setting everything up the way I want it. Does it suck? Yes. But I know exactly what I installed and gives me the ability to purge things I no longer need.

alpaca128 3y ago
Recently a relative decided to use Huawei's migration app for the new phone. It deleted all music files. At least now I know my paranoia with such magic features wasn't unfounded.

say_it_as_it_is 3y ago

Okta reinvented the TLS wheel and put a single SAAS provider into the middle of the wheel to manage it for you. They also added identity and access control from the center.