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If this happened the other way round, where ups/fedex (usps would be impossible at least in the US) refused to deliver to any striker, there'd be riots no? Jus

If this happened the other way round, where ups/fedex (usps would be impossible at least in the US) refused to deliver to any striker, there'd be riots no? Just seems wild to let a union have so much power over your country. Isn't it not far off for the union to decide meat is murder later, and refuse to deliver any animal products? Allowing, what, 0.01% of the population to dictate what the other 99.99 can receive seems like too much.

kalleboo 3y ago
70% of the working population in Sweden are union members and they have wide support in society (that is a higher participation rate than US elections). The unions are the people and speak for them. > Isn't it not far off for the union to decide meat is murder If they did something controversial like that, everyone would quit the unions, even as it stands today, there is not actually much reason to be in a union aside from solidarity and cooperative discounts on stuff like insurance
isodev 3y ago
Almost 70% of employees in Sweden are members of a trade union, so it makes a lot of sense that they have a say. This mechanism exists in other European countries - sympathy strikes happen only after negotiations have been refused or failed.
hiq 3y ago
Are you comparing individuals to a company?
malermeister 3y ago
Capital already has this much power. This union structure gives labor a more even negotiating position. In the US, you are a single worker negotiating with billion-dollar companies. Unless you have a very rare skill set, that means you'll be easy pickings and your employer will be able to exploit you. In Scandinavia, you are all sector workers negotiating. This evens out the power imbalance and allows for fair negotiations.
TraspSE 3y ago
You do know that 90% of Swedish workers are covered by collective agreements, right? While the unions have lost members over the last few decades, about 70% of the population is still members of a union. As such, the number 0.01% only proves your complete ignorance in this matter. Sweden isn't the US and the behavior of the unions isn't comparable to that of the US narrative - nor are the rules and customs of our nation. The 0.01% is in this situation the foreign CEOs while the 99.9% is the actual population. Your made the perfect argument in favor of the unions, by sheer ignorance. PS. The lost in members is likely due to the fact that those who isn't unionized reap most of the benefits anyway. Employers usually sign collective agreements voluntarily as it usually benefits both employer and employees. The numbers would likely go back up if they didn't.
- ApolloFortyNine 3y ago
  >Your made the perfect argument in favor of the unions, by sheer ignorance. What percentage of swedes are in the port workers union that apparently decides what can be imported into the country?
  - TraspSE 3y ago
    The argument that dockworkers single-handedly is deciding what is allowed to be imported is simply false to begin with. The members of the Transport don't dictate what's allowed to be imported - there's just no-one that's willing to unload cars of this specific brand before the ship has to leave again. There's a difference, as Tesla could try to import them by other means. So far there's at least five large unions that have already joined or is about to join the strike, as it affects the whole of Sweden. To calculate how many members there are in the unions that are currently involved and actively support these actions you'd have to include mechanics (IF Metall), dockworkers (Transport and Hamnarbetarförbundet), electricians (Elektrikerförbundet), maintenance workers (Kommunal) and postal service employees (SEKO). These five unions amount to about 1M members in total, or 19% of the Swedish workforce, as some of them have members from more than one field. The pressure will be incrementally increased until Tesla realize that they have the whole nation against them, so you would pretty soon have to include the full 70% of the working population to calculate how many members there are in the unions that's currently involved. The docks is a good place to start but as we've seen today, that was merely a warning shot - as advertised in advance.

kalleboo 3y ago

70% of the working population in Sweden are union members and they have wide support in society (that is a higher participation rate than US elections). The unions are the people and speak for them. > Isn't it not far off for the union to decide meat is murder If they did something controversial like that, everyone would quit the unions, even as it stands today, there is not actually much reason to be in a union aside from solidarity and cooperative discounts on stuff like insurance

isodev 3y ago

Almost 70% of employees in Sweden are members of a trade union, so it makes a lot of sense that they have a say. This mechanism exists in other European countries - sympathy strikes happen only after negotiations have been refused or failed.

hiq 3y ago

Are you comparing individuals to a company?

malermeister 3y ago

Capital already has this much power. This union structure gives labor a more even negotiating position. In the US, you are a single worker negotiating with billion-dollar companies. Unless you have a very rare skill set, that means you'll be easy pickings and your employer will be able to exploit you. In Scandinavia, you are all sector workers negotiating. This evens out the power imbalance and allows for fair negotiations.

TraspSE 3y ago

You do know that 90% of Swedish workers are covered by collective agreements, right? While the unions have lost members over the last few decades, about 70% of the population is still members of a union. As such, the number 0.01% only proves your complete ignorance in this matter. Sweden isn't the US and the behavior of the unions isn't comparable to that of the US narrative - nor are the rules and customs of our nation. The 0.01% is in this situation the foreign CEOs while the 99.9% is the actual population. Your made the perfect argument in favor of the unions, by sheer ignorance. PS. The lost in members is likely due to the fact that those who isn't unionized reap most of the benefits anyway. Employers usually sign collective agreements voluntarily as it usually benefits both employer and employees. The numbers would likely go back up if they didn't.

ApolloFortyNine 3y ago
>Your made the perfect argument in favor of the unions, by sheer ignorance. What percentage of swedes are in the port workers union that apparently decides what can be imported into the country?
- TraspSE 3y ago
  The argument that dockworkers single-handedly is deciding what is allowed to be imported is simply false to begin with. The members of the Transport don't dictate what's allowed to be imported - there's just no-one that's willing to unload cars of this specific brand before the ship has to leave again. There's a difference, as Tesla could try to import them by other means. So far there's at least five large unions that have already joined or is about to join the strike, as it affects the whole of Sweden. To calculate how many members there are in the unions that are currently involved and actively support these actions you'd have to include mechanics (IF Metall), dockworkers (Transport and Hamnarbetarförbundet), electricians (Elektrikerförbundet), maintenance workers (Kommunal) and postal service employees (SEKO). These five unions amount to about 1M members in total, or 19% of the Swedish workforce, as some of them have members from more than one field. The pressure will be incrementally increased until Tesla realize that they have the whole nation against them, so you would pretty soon have to include the full 70% of the working population to calculate how many members there are in the unions that's currently involved. The docks is a good place to start but as we've seen today, that was merely a warning shot - as advertised in advance.