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The trouble with ingredients in sunscreens
- lancefisher 3y agoI’ve started to minimize my use of sunscreen. It still important to stay protected from the sun, but long sleeves, hoods, hats, and pants are a great alternative. The lightweight sun shirts are comfortable and more convenient. For my kids, I got them cheap wetsuits from Amazon for the time we spend camping at the lake. This is also cheaper than sunscreen. They can fully manage it on their own since about age 6 or 7.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agothis is a good solution but doesn't protect the face. zinc oxide (physical sunscreen) is a good choice for the face that doesn't have the problems in the article. Of course, zinc oxide looks terrible - white hue - but there are some that are not as bad as others. I use Neutrogena Sheer Zinc Kids (roll-on, so adults and kids can use it easily). After a little rubbing, it's still noticeable but just barely. The "regular" neutrogena sunblock - lotion style - has one or more of the chemicals that break down into benzene. Some of them were in the FDA recall. The EWG article doesn't mention these break down into benzene. It shoulld. ConsumerLabs did a thorough review and analysis. The summer 2023 Consumer Reports (not ConsumerLabs) article on sunscreen had absolutely no mention of the sunscreen recalls (2021, 2022, 2023) and in fact recommended some products that had been recalled and are known to break down into benzene and benzophenone. Any residual respect I had for them is now gone.
- copperx 3y agoTinted zinc oxide face sunscreen is fantastic, and it covers face blemishes. It's like makeup lite. Zinc/titanium oxide for the body is a more problematic, I've haven't found a brand that blends well.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoTitanium dioxide protects primarily against UVB and much less so for UVA. Zinc oxide protects against both.
- stronglikedan 3y agoI found a good reef friendly zinc oxide (All Good Zinc Butter Sunscreen) that doesn't give the white sheen when you rub it in really well. A lil' dab'll do ya, as they say.
- talldatethrow 3y agoHow does one get their required sun for vitamin D if taking sunscreen so seriously?
- galangalalgol 3y agoI still wear a hat, or cover up entirely if I will be out all day, but the fern based pills like helicare or solaricare or whatever seem to prevent me from burning, or even reverse a mild burn if I take it fast enough. I have no idea if it is preventing dna damage that would lead to cancer. But I get a little tan by the end of the summer. And I've never done that before. My dermatologist recommended it so it must be fine...
- talldatethrow 3y agoJudging by the amount of people that are Vitamin D deficient according to the medical community, makes me really wonder if the medical community would think twice about giving you tips that make you continue being vitamin D deficient. It doesn't seem to be important to them.
- roldie 3y agoI've never heard of these fern-based supplements before. How are they supposed to be better than other antioxidants?
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoVitamin D supplements + Vitamin K2
- mmh0000 3y agoTo add to this, you should also be getting regular (like twice a year) blood draws done to check where all your nutrient levels are. This way, you can decide which supplements and how much. Through this, I've learned that my Vit. D supplement works. My multivitamins work, and my B12 supplements work. My previous iron supplement was not working, and I was able to make a change to a different product. Then, six months later, a blood test showed my iron levels back in the normal range.
- devit 3y agoA silver-coated umbrella is very effective at protecting the face as well as some of the upper body (or the whole body, if the sun is directly overhead or the umbrella is huge), except for UV reflected from elsewhere which I think is usually not significant.
- NikolaNovak 3y agoDon't hats protect face reasonably well? (not talking baseball hats here:)
- reaperman 3y agoEltaMD has a "almost entirely invisible" zinc oxide sunblock as well.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agowhich one? they have 15 face sunscreens, and 8 body sunscreens, all with zinc oxide. can you please recommend? I want to try it. Thank you.
- reaperman 3y agoUV Clear - https://eltamd.com/collections/face-sunscreen/products/uv-clear-broad-spectrum-spf-46 https://eltamd.com/collections/face-sunscreen/products/uv-cl... This is the one I enjoyed! But the new packaging shows "Active Ingredients: 9% Zinc Oxide, 7.5% Octinoxate" ... my older packaging didn't show Octinoxate, which is likely an endocrine disruptor. So I'm rather annoyed and can't recommend it anymore.
- justinator 3y agoI actually started using a mask for my face. My nose has never been more happier.
- deathanatos 3y ago> cheap wetsuits See "rash guards". They're light-weight UV-opaque T-shirts that are intended to get wet, essentially. I wear one, and I do not burn under it, even at the beach, in the sun, all day. Do not forget to apply sunscreen to your hands, since it doesn't cover them — I made that mistake exactly once. (And other exposed areas, of course.)
- LorenPechtel 3y agoNever heard of them before, sounds like they might be useful.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoI've never heard them called wet suits or rash guards. Here we call them "sun shirts" or "UV shirts". They are most definitely not wet suits like scuba diver gear.
- Incipient 3y agoDown under we call the rash vests, or "rashies". They're typically a thin neoprene like material, often as thin as a t-shirt, but some can be a bit thicker for warmth too.
- deathanatos 3y agoOh, rash guards are most definitely not wet suits, I wasn't intending to imply that. Just for what the parent was using them for (protecting kids while doing what sounds like playing in the lake) they sound like they'd be a better fit than a wet suit. "UV shirt" would be a far more sensible name than "rash guard", I admit. That was just the name I learned for them when I first found out they existed. (Which was in Hawaii, under a brutally unforgiving sun.)
- lancefisher 3y agoRash guards are halfway between a wetsuit and a sun shirt. I have one for surfing, but I got the kids wetsuits because Flathead Lake can be cold as well as sunny. They have more fun and play longer in the water with them.
- stefantalpalaru 3y ago[dead]
- dotps1 3y agoI mean that's a great anecdote, but it distracts from the article. The takeaway here that people should be leaving with is that mineral based sunscreen is a safe, effective, and healthy alternative. This "throw the baby out with the bathwater" comment that does not address the linked article at all should not be at the top.
- scythe 3y agoSad to see this article reach the end of the scrollbar without even a mention of the triazine sunscreens which are pervasive in Japan and approved in the EU with no action from the FDA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bemotrizinol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bemotrizinol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iscotrizinol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iscotrizinol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylhexyl_triazone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylhexyl_triazone etc Concern over the FDA slow-walking approval of triazine sunscreens was raised in the trade press no later than 2005: https://pubsapp.acs.org/cen/coverstory/83/8315sunscreens.html https://pubsapp.acs.org/cen/coverstory/83/8315sunscreens.htm...? To date there has been no movement.
- _moof 3y agoFortunately while we wait for the FDA to get its act together we can buy triazine sunscreen relatively cheaply and have it shipped here. I've been using Altruist: https://altruistsun.com/ https://altruistsun.com/
- spondylosaurus 3y agoI'm pretty sure Isntree Hyaluronic Acid Watery Sun Gel is a triazine sunscreen as well. Korean brand, amazing product.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoThe first one I checked on that website, “Face Fluid”, has Octocrylene which is a hormone disrupter according to the article.
- WirelessGigabit 3y ago> per·va·sive (especially of an unwelcome influence or physical effect) spreading widely throughout an area or a group of people. What is unwelcome about triazine sunscreens?
- beefman 3y agoWe briefly had nanozinc, which works for hours, stays on in the water, and is good for skin. But it was cancelled in a bout of consumer hysteria based on nothing. Fifteen years later we're still stuck with chemical sunscreens that are irritating, work for 30-60 minutes at a time, wash off in the water in 2 seconds, and may actually be bad for health.
- pixl97 3y ago>Upon inhalation of ZnO nanoparticles, serious local effects in the lung were observed. Even if this may be due to the solubilized Zn ions, the effects are a direct result of the exposure to the ZnO nanoparticles. Therefore, the SCCS is of the opinion that, on the basis of available information, the use of ZnO nanoparticles in spray products cannot be considered safe.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoThere are many zinc oxide sunscreens today that market themselves as "non-nanoparticle" for this very reason. Pro tip: don't ever use spray-on sunscreen, especially around children who can't hold their breath.
- slaymaker1907 3y agoIt's sometimes useful for areas with a bit of hair, but not enough hair to protect the skin from the sun. However, if you do use spray sunscreen, also make sure to do it outside or other very well ventilated area.
- beefman 3y agoMany sprays and powders are harmful to lungs, including zinc oxide particles of any size. SCCS concluded nanozinc in non-spray sunscreens is safe https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/consumer_safety/docs/sccs_o_137.pdf https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/consumer_s...
- coob 3y agoWhat about Diethylamino Hydroxybenzoyl Hexyl Benzoate (P20) ? Is that available in the US?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- sgt 3y agoI never use sunscreen... I just try to stay out of direct sun in the worst parts of the day if I can. Wear a hat etc. Sun can be pretty hot here in South Africa but that's a common approach I think.
- SoftTalker 3y agoJust basically whatever doctors and the FDA says is probably wrong. That's the conclusion one can draw about the endless stories like this.
- cactusplant7374 3y agoThe author provides claims with no evidence of impact on public health. Meanwhile, we have plenty of evidence with regards to sun exposure and skin cancer.
- babypuncher 3y agoyes i'm going to believe an unsourced blog post over actual doctors...
- asymmetric 3y agoRelated: https://www.outsideonline.com/health/wellness/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science/ https://www.outsideonline.com/health/wellness/sunscreen-sun-...
- danw1979 3y agoI went pretty much the whole summer, including most of August in the south of France, using very small amounts of sunscreen, mostly on face and neck and mostly zinc oxide based. I spent June and July building up a tan gradually in my back garden (northern England) at lunchtime, 30 minutes at most, whenever the sun was shining. By the time I went on holiday in August I could easily go without burning when exposed for an hour or two, but making sure I was covered up in the afternoon. I’m not sure if this is a healthy approach or not, but I feel like I’m hedging my bets against both skin cancer and vitamin D deficiency by using a bit of tan, bit of sunscreen, bit of covering up.
- atombender 3y agoThe idea of a "base tan" that is protective against sunburns and skin cancer has found to be a myth [1], unfortunately. It has no protective effect, and may be counterproductive, since it gives you more confidence to go out in the sun without sunscreen protection. [1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-a-base-tan-can-protect-against-sunburn/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-a...
- arcanemachiner 3y agoSun exposure may have a range of other beneficial effects: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5086738/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5086738/ In the end, I think it's flatly obvious that too much or too little (as anyone who lives in northern latitudes can tell you) sun exposure is bad for you. There's an ideal range somewhere.
- atombender 3y agoSure. I was only addressing the suggestion that a "base tan" is protective.
- Infernal 3y agoThe data in the article you linked doesn't agree with you - it says a base tan gives an SPF of 2, and gives the example that that means if you would normally burn in 10 minutes, it will now take 2x the time (20 minutes) to burn. Doubling the burn time is hardly "no protective effect".
- tempsy 3y agoHow did we evolve to "need" sunscreen? It honestly doesn't make any sense at all.
- klooney 3y agoIt's different being outside all day everyday from day 0 and being inside most of the time except for on the weekends. Plus, you know, we take lots of notes about cancer now.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tayo42 3y agoYou just needed to make it to puberty, so like 12 to 14?,to reproduce. Anything after for evolution is bonus I would think.
- tempsy 3y agoAnd what would be the consequence of not wearing sunscreen be exactly? The skin cancer rates are wildly different depending on what ethnicity you are. For Asians and Blacks it's 4% of the rate of Caucasians. In fact it's nearly non-existent. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9345197/#:~:text=EPIDEMIOLOGY%20OF%20SKIN%20CANCER%20DISPARITIES,%2DHispanic%20Blacks%20(1.0) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9345197/#:~:tex....
- missedthecue 3y agoEvolution doesn't optimize for eeking out extra years by lowering risk of skin cancer, and it doesn't optimize for minimizing wrinkles as you age. These are benefits sunscreen provides. If you're white, your skin was evolved over generations of time spent in very low UV sunlight. The UV index in North Europe is 1 or 2 right now, depending on the city. In Ecuador, it's 12. A white person would begin to burn within a few minutes without protection there. Caucasian people have evolved with very little melanin because that means they can absorb more vitamin D in low, intermittent, or weak sunlight conditions