5 ms·

This is what happens when presidents boast about how they are bolstering border security by pointing to number of agent hires. You get a bunch of low life wanna

This is what happens when presidents boast about how they are bolstering border security by pointing to number of agent hires. You get a bunch of low life wannabe warriors. Quality over quantity. Get the mid off the street.

libraryatnight 3y ago
I wish there were some way they could filter out the whole super patriot warrior persona from law enforcement, it's useless to the community and it doesn't feel safe it feels hostile, they have no business being in a position of power over anyone. I shouldn't see cops with punisher skull and crossed AR15s sleeve tattoos, that's not a law enforcement vibe, that's murderous vigilante cult vibe.
- simbolit 3y ago
  It's a vicious cycle. As long as the punisher types are cops, the "right" people are disincentivized to join, whereas other punisher types feel welcome. :-(
- sublinear 3y ago
  Wouldn't that just filter for the ones who really are murderous vigilantes or agitate those jokers into being serious about it?
- Spivak 3y ago
  Take away the guns and the ability to use any real force (ie on duty cops are held to the same standard of assault as everyone else) The police department as a whole needs that ability but reserve it for a small exclusive units that can only get called in to deal with matters that require rapid deesclation by force. When 99/100 of best cops are glorified meter maids, social workers, and civil servants you'll see the machismo disappear overnight.
  - oh_sigh 3y ago
    Taking away cop guns in America would just equate to a lot of dead cops.
    - MeImCounting 3y ago
      I wasnt aware having a gun could stop bullets from killing you? Unless you think its appropriate for cops to be acting as judge jury and executioner.
      - oh_sigh 3y ago
        You didn't realize that? You really need to think harder on this. Are you aware that having a gun can stop a grizzly bear's teeth and claws from killing you too? > Unless you think its appropriate for cops to be acting as judge jury and executioner So if someone starts shooting at at random people in a mall, and a cop has a gun on him, he is supposed to run up and use some judo to disable the mass shooter, since the cop shouldn't act as judge jury and executioner?
        MeImCounting 3y ago
        So your argument is that cops should have weapons because some extraordinary circumstances sometimes happen and we should hope that instead of acting like the cops at Parkland did they take it upon themselves to circumvent the justice system and instead dispense "frontier justice"? I am going ignore the part about grizzly bears because I dont believe that is in good faith and is basically just a non-sequitur I fail to see how thats any better than disarming the bullies and letting specialized teams IE SWAT teams take care of extraordinary situations. That is if they even manage to show up in time to do anything which is in doubt.
        googlryas 3y ago
        I think you haven't been paying attention if you think people shooting guns at the public, or at cops, is an "extraordinary circumstance" in America. It's not just mall shootings, or parkland. It's also people just shooting at cops after getting pulled over for speeding, which is far less likely to get national news attention. You're free to ignore it, but I added the point about grizzly bears because you seemed confused how a gun can help defend you against someone with a gun. It can help defend you against many threats, in fact. Edit:responded from the account on my phone, sorry for any confusion.
  - nitwit005 3y ago
    I honestly suspect requiring the guns and military equipment to be pink and have mandatory hello kitty stickers would have a positive effect. My home town has an big armored vehicle. The last homicide was 2008. It's effectively a prop in their military role play.
- NotACop182 3y ago
  Good luck filtering them out. It’s almost built into the culture. You’re an outcast where I come from if you fall out of line. You learn to just go with the flow and avoid the bad elements to survive.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    Maybe start by not hiring people with punisher skull and crossed AR15s sleeve tattoos.
    - fknorangesite 3y ago
      That's the problem: they don't have those when they're hired; that shit comes with the job, not before it.
      - hezralig 3y ago
        Are you referencing LASD Gangs? https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-05-17/dozens-of-lasd-deputies-ordered-to-show-suspected-gang-tattoos-reveal-others-who-have-them https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-05-17/dozens-o...
- wyldberry 3y ago
  The ability for hacker news commenters to grossly over-simplify and misrepresent things like this is unparalleled. Just like it takes all folks to make a village, it also takes those folks to do some missions that police forces have. The problem is when the culture of a police force is all of one type. There, however, is value in having people appear strong to those who would take advantage if weakness is detected. Today's punisher skull is yesteryear's ceremonial armor and masks.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    Nothing we need done requires a punisher skull bully with an inferiority complex intimidating citizens.
    - wyldberry 3y ago
      Nothing we need done requires .... intimidating citizens. Until you need SWAT to kick in a door with actual murderers on the other end. Really until you need violence to contain violence. Then you get into the real questions: in their day-to-day interactions such as issuing citations are they intimidating citizens with behavior or their appearance? I've known several Military folks who later became police (and had significantly better escalation of force training from the military) who looked fierce but were big softies most days. No better friend, but no worse enemy and all.
      - giraffe_lady 3y ago
        Yeah man I literally know two dozen cops and almost every single one is a racist coward who gets off on bullying people they have power over. That's what the punisher skulls are for. The murderers behind a door thing sound scary tho, how often do you think that happens? Vs like every other encounter the 700k american cops do each day? Also uh, uvalde? maine? Seems like we might be optimizing for the wrong thing here and also it doesn't even work.
        seanw444 3y ago
Unfrozen0688 3y ago
Excuse me? Because they installed NordPVN they are "low life wannabe warriors"? What are you even talking about?
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Nah they are low life wannabe warriors for joining ICE though.
  - Unfrozen0688 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - Runways 3y ago
      Please keep dog-whistles off HN
- bandyaboot 3y ago
  I wouldn’t use that particular language, but it does raise questions when they’re installing privacy apps on official devices. If it’s a security thing, that shouldn’t be handled individually.
pj_mukh 3y ago
Is a university degree a requirement? Would that help? I know four year degrees get a bad rap and god knows the prices are definitely bloated. However, it could be a good filter to really take out the wannabe warriors.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > However, it could be a good filter to really take out the wannabe warriors. Plenty of wannabe warriors with bachelor's degrees, particularly in fields related to government, criminal justice, etc. And there’ll be more if you make it a requirement for a job for which it currently isn't required and to which wannabe warriors are attracted.
- acdha 3y ago
  How many of the war criminals in the Bush administration or the people who tried to help Trump break U.S. law not only had 4 year degrees but also things like law degrees or MBAs? You can’t use credentials to filter out things like this any more reliably than head shape.
- tengbretson 3y ago
  If I had to guess I would say that willingness to stand up to institutional corruption is negatively correlated with being in 5 figures of unforgivable debt.
- bastardoperator 3y ago
  It's not. It should be. I have no issues with applying educational rebates for members of the police force, but it needs to result in less litigation. At this point police are costing taxpayers huge sums of money due to lack of understanding and short term training. I don't know if we'll every move away from the current thinking, but I think most citizens want protectors, not warriors.
pookha 3y ago
There's absurd amounts of cartel violence right now in Mexico. My brother in law is married to a lady who grew up in Mexico and she's lost several cousins to cartel violence. The town where her family lives is more or less vacant after hours. And I don't know about border-enforcement but state park police are actively engaging with these same cartel members and they are armed and violent (https://thehill.com/opinion/congress-blog/3577673-cartels-are-turning-our-national-forests-into-a-warzone/)...Extrapolating https://thehill.com/opinion/congress-blog/3577673-cartels-ar... from that I'd assume that these New Jalisco soldiers are not pleasant to deal with if you're one of these low-level BP guys (cartel's are involved in smuggling people through the border). I wouldn't want their jobs and I wouldn't call them "low life wannabe warrior's" either.
- bear141 3y ago
  [dead]
- NewJazz 3y ago
  I don't doubt that there is considerable violence along the border. But I think there should be much more professional actors if they are state-sponsored. These guys make 40k on the low-end and 100k at peak.[1] That's nothing. Of course with such low pay you end up with the bottom of the barrel of people. And in particular the kind of person who is there for reasons other than the compensation... think for example one of the victims you mentioned or someone adjacent to them. Or just replacement theorists, supremacists, and garden-variety sociopaths. [1] https://www.cbp.gov/careers/ofo/pay-benefits/cbpo https://www.cbp.gov/careers/ofo/pay-benefits/cbpo
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  Enforcement is violence. The only real ways to effectively end violence are all-out victory or de-escalation.
- caycep 3y ago
  this might be true, but ICE, being a knee jerk department created after 9/11, never really was set up with the proper oversight for a public agency. It's known for being opaque, poorly run, and not accountable to anyone. It, and CBP, are due for a massive overhaul/restructure.

libraryatnight 3y ago

I wish there were some way they could filter out the whole super patriot warrior persona from law enforcement, it's useless to the community and it doesn't feel safe it feels hostile, they have no business being in a position of power over anyone. I shouldn't see cops with punisher skull and crossed AR15s sleeve tattoos, that's not a law enforcement vibe, that's murderous vigilante cult vibe.

simbolit 3y ago
It's a vicious cycle. As long as the punisher types are cops, the "right" people are disincentivized to join, whereas other punisher types feel welcome. :-(
sublinear 3y ago
Wouldn't that just filter for the ones who really are murderous vigilantes or agitate those jokers into being serious about it?
Spivak 3y ago
Take away the guns and the ability to use any real force (ie on duty cops are held to the same standard of assault as everyone else) The police department as a whole needs that ability but reserve it for a small exclusive units that can only get called in to deal with matters that require rapid deesclation by force. When 99/100 of best cops are glorified meter maids, social workers, and civil servants you'll see the machismo disappear overnight.
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  Taking away cop guns in America would just equate to a lot of dead cops.
  - MeImCounting 3y ago
    I wasnt aware having a gun could stop bullets from killing you? Unless you think its appropriate for cops to be acting as judge jury and executioner.
    - oh_sigh 3y ago
      You didn't realize that? You really need to think harder on this. Are you aware that having a gun can stop a grizzly bear's teeth and claws from killing you too? > Unless you think its appropriate for cops to be acting as judge jury and executioner So if someone starts shooting at at random people in a mall, and a cop has a gun on him, he is supposed to run up and use some judo to disable the mass shooter, since the cop shouldn't act as judge jury and executioner?
      - MeImCounting 3y ago
        So your argument is that cops should have weapons because some extraordinary circumstances sometimes happen and we should hope that instead of acting like the cops at Parkland did they take it upon themselves to circumvent the justice system and instead dispense "frontier justice"? I am going ignore the part about grizzly bears because I dont believe that is in good faith and is basically just a non-sequitur I fail to see how thats any better than disarming the bullies and letting specialized teams IE SWAT teams take care of extraordinary situations. That is if they even manage to show up in time to do anything which is in doubt.
        googlryas 3y ago
        I think you haven't been paying attention if you think people shooting guns at the public, or at cops, is an "extraordinary circumstance" in America. It's not just mall shootings, or parkland. It's also people just shooting at cops after getting pulled over for speeding, which is far less likely to get national news attention. You're free to ignore it, but I added the point about grizzly bears because you seemed confused how a gun can help defend you against someone with a gun. It can help defend you against many threats, in fact. Edit:responded from the account on my phone, sorry for any confusion.
- nitwit005 3y ago
  I honestly suspect requiring the guns and military equipment to be pink and have mandatory hello kitty stickers would have a positive effect. My home town has an big armored vehicle. The last homicide was 2008. It's effectively a prop in their military role play.
NotACop182 3y ago
Good luck filtering them out. It’s almost built into the culture. You’re an outcast where I come from if you fall out of line. You learn to just go with the flow and avoid the bad elements to survive.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Maybe start by not hiring people with punisher skull and crossed AR15s sleeve tattoos.
  - fknorangesite 3y ago
    That's the problem: they don't have those when they're hired; that shit comes with the job, not before it.
    - hezralig 3y ago
      Are you referencing LASD Gangs? https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-05-17/dozens-of-lasd-deputies-ordered-to-show-suspected-gang-tattoos-reveal-others-who-have-them https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-05-17/dozens-o...
wyldberry 3y ago
The ability for hacker news commenters to grossly over-simplify and misrepresent things like this is unparalleled. Just like it takes all folks to make a village, it also takes those folks to do some missions that police forces have. The problem is when the culture of a police force is all of one type. There, however, is value in having people appear strong to those who would take advantage if weakness is detected. Today's punisher skull is yesteryear's ceremonial armor and masks.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Nothing we need done requires a punisher skull bully with an inferiority complex intimidating citizens.
  - wyldberry 3y ago
    Nothing we need done requires .... intimidating citizens. Until you need SWAT to kick in a door with actual murderers on the other end. Really until you need violence to contain violence. Then you get into the real questions: in their day-to-day interactions such as issuing citations are they intimidating citizens with behavior or their appearance? I've known several Military folks who later became police (and had significantly better escalation of force training from the military) who looked fierce but were big softies most days. No better friend, but no worse enemy and all.
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      Yeah man I literally know two dozen cops and almost every single one is a racist coward who gets off on bullying people they have power over. That's what the punisher skulls are for. The murderers behind a door thing sound scary tho, how often do you think that happens? Vs like every other encounter the 700k american cops do each day? Also uh, uvalde? maine? Seems like we might be optimizing for the wrong thing here and also it doesn't even work.
      - seanw444 3y ago

Unfrozen0688 3y ago

Excuse me? Because they installed NordPVN they are "low life wannabe warriors"? What are you even talking about?

giraffe_lady 3y ago
Nah they are low life wannabe warriors for joining ICE though.
- Unfrozen0688 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - Runways 3y ago
    Please keep dog-whistles off HN
bandyaboot 3y ago
I wouldn’t use that particular language, but it does raise questions when they’re installing privacy apps on official devices. If it’s a security thing, that shouldn’t be handled individually.

pj_mukh 3y ago

Is a university degree a requirement? Would that help? I know four year degrees get a bad rap and god knows the prices are definitely bloated. However, it could be a good filter to really take out the wannabe warriors.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> However, it could be a good filter to really take out the wannabe warriors. Plenty of wannabe warriors with bachelor's degrees, particularly in fields related to government, criminal justice, etc. And there’ll be more if you make it a requirement for a job for which it currently isn't required and to which wannabe warriors are attracted.
acdha 3y ago
How many of the war criminals in the Bush administration or the people who tried to help Trump break U.S. law not only had 4 year degrees but also things like law degrees or MBAs? You can’t use credentials to filter out things like this any more reliably than head shape.
tengbretson 3y ago
If I had to guess I would say that willingness to stand up to institutional corruption is negatively correlated with being in 5 figures of unforgivable debt.
bastardoperator 3y ago
It's not. It should be. I have no issues with applying educational rebates for members of the police force, but it needs to result in less litigation. At this point police are costing taxpayers huge sums of money due to lack of understanding and short term training. I don't know if we'll every move away from the current thinking, but I think most citizens want protectors, not warriors.

pookha 3y ago

There's absurd amounts of cartel violence right now in Mexico. My brother in law is married to a lady who grew up in Mexico and she's lost several cousins to cartel violence. The town where her family lives is more or less vacant after hours. And I don't know about border-enforcement but state park police are actively engaging with these same cartel members and they are armed and violent (https://thehill.com/opinion/congress-blog/3577673-cartels-are-turning-our-national-forests-into-a-warzone/)...Extrapolating https://thehill.com/opinion/congress-blog/3577673-cartels-ar... from that I'd assume that these New Jalisco soldiers are not pleasant to deal with if you're one of these low-level BP guys (cartel's are involved in smuggling people through the border). I wouldn't want their jobs and I wouldn't call them "low life wannabe warrior's" either.

bear141 3y ago
[dead]
NewJazz 3y ago
I don't doubt that there is considerable violence along the border. But I think there should be much more professional actors if they are state-sponsored. These guys make 40k on the low-end and 100k at peak.[1] That's nothing. Of course with such low pay you end up with the bottom of the barrel of people. And in particular the kind of person who is there for reasons other than the compensation... think for example one of the victims you mentioned or someone adjacent to them. Or just replacement theorists, supremacists, and garden-variety sociopaths. [1] https://www.cbp.gov/careers/ofo/pay-benefits/cbpo https://www.cbp.gov/careers/ofo/pay-benefits/cbpo
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
thomastjeffery 3y ago
Enforcement is violence. The only real ways to effectively end violence are all-out victory or de-escalation.
caycep 3y ago
this might be true, but ICE, being a knee jerk department created after 9/11, never really was set up with the proper oversight for a public agency. It's known for being opaque, poorly run, and not accountable to anyone. It, and CBP, are due for a massive overhaul/restructure.