7 ms·

Now lets quantify how many of them are absurd listings. Recently saw a Senior Security Engineer role for Netflix, $100-$700k salary range. How is someone supp

Now lets quantify how many of them are absurd listings. Recently saw a Senior Security Engineer role for Netflix, $100-$700k salary range. How is someone supposed to reasonably negotiate that role? $100k is clearly a joke, $700k is clearly a salary someone got during the bubble. Do I come in at $400k? Is $250k a bargain rate? https://imgur.com/a/0Fe00Qf https://imgur.com/a/0Fe00Qf

linuxftw 3y ago
This is an often proffered limitation of these laws, but there are second order effects. If someone hires a woman, minority, whatever else, at the $100k rate with the same qualifications they typically hire X group at the $700k rate, they're going to have some 'splainin' to do.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Perfect is the enemy of good enough. If laws are found to have bugs, you keep patching them over time to close the loopholes.
  - BobaFloutist 3y ago
    Unfortunately, the patch cycle for laws is, by design, incredibly slow.
    - Retric 3y ago
      Luckily humans don’t change quickly. 1870’s era anti trust issues are still relevant in 2023. Problem shows up 150+ years ago and we’re still dealing with it. Slow patch times are often a feature. Laws that solve problems can seem irrelevant when those problems go away.
  - altdataseller 3y ago
    Exactly, and so there are a few outliers that don’t follow the spirit or good faith of the law. Guess what? You can ignore them! Nobody says you have to apply. There are plenty of other companies that are publishing informative salary ranges
- nightski 3y ago
  But if it isn't a minority or woman then whatever right?
  - howenterprisey 3y ago
    What's your point? Their point was that these scales can help provide evidence of minorities and women getting paid less. Can you expand on what we could learn from the situation of two people getting different salaries when they're neither minorities nor women?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - nightski 3y ago
      My point was that singling out minorities or women is not necessary, it applies to all humans. Although I think what you end up is a mediocre salary for everyone, not just those who negotiate poorly. By setting the salary range tightly it prevents market forces from affecting pay much.
      - linuxftw 3y ago
        Unfortunately, grouping people is the only way to enforce these laws in the US. You have to prove you were discriminated against because you are part of some protected group.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
thebradbain 3y ago
A big range like that means you should feel more than fine selecting the average— so $400k— at the minimum. Anything less and you’re essentially admitting you don’t think you’re worth what the salary range is. Personally I would ask for clarification, and if they refuse to provide any, ask for near or above the top-end of the range. Theres plenty of $215k salary jobs currently, so if you happen to not land this one, then no loss of what you never had. But if you happen to get this job, making $700k, simply for asking, then congrats!
- joncrocks 3y ago
  The issue is that if you're currently making $200K, it's hard to tell where they might think you might sit in that scale up-front. It's a bit like saying "Employee - $10K-$10M p/a" - It's not very useful in a job posting, as you might reasonably assume someone being paid the top salary is not actually doing the same role as at the bottom range.
  - otteromkram 3y ago
    If they aren't doing the same role, then why are salaries for two different roles listed under a single job requisition?
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      Because outside of government and certain (but not all) bigcorps, knowledge worker jobs aren’t “find a cog to fit a precise position in a larger machine” things. Heck, even in government they often aren't, though the rules governing government hiring force people to superficially hire as if they were.
- vsareto 3y ago
  Most people don't know what a $400k Security Engineer actually does to warrant that pay because you can probably find a similar job at another company that pays much less and probably makes you work more. I sure as fuck don't and I at least have one pentesting cert FWIW. This pricing scheme punishes people trying to be honest about their skill set. Otherwise why stop at the average? Just max it out and ask for $700k. Another $300k/yr won't break Netflix's bank and everyone else is getting rich that they won't care to call you out either.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
>How is someone supposed to reasonably negotiate that role? Get a competing job offer. A minimum price lets labor sellers know if it is worth applying or not, and trends in supply and demand for that type of labor (based on which way the minimums are moving industry wide).
- photonbeam 3y ago
  The timing on this is rather difficult though, and its non trivial time and effort
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    In any market, sellers should always be constantly seeking buyers and negotiating prices if they are interested in receiving the highest prices.
- buildbot 3y ago
  or “unethically” (depending on your ethics!), you could just _say_ you have a competing offer. Unless there is like some secret hiring manager slack where people ask each other “did you really send that person an offer?”.
  - rglullis 3y ago
    There is, but if I give more details my life will be in danger.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
    You don’t even have to disclose the company during negotiation, I’ve simply said “I have an offer from a Series A company with X equity and Y salary” so they have something to benchmark against
  - tyingq 3y ago
    You did used to be able to similarly overstate your current salary, and then something quite a lot more formal than "secret slack channel" evolved. And it's often not accurate. Urgh.
wredue 3y ago
Does Netflix do location based pay? Could explain that. Not that I necessarily agree with location based pay scales. I haven’t really thought about this idea tbh. On one hand, a company can get location based pay scales simply by having an office in a different area. On the other, if you’re hired in San Fran and working remotely in (some much cheaper to live place) then it’s not really the same. Obviously, the state is benefiting much less from this scenario.
barryrandall 3y ago
Don't apply. The employer is showing you how they operate when they're trying to impress candidates. Do you really want to find out what they do when they know your best alternative is a job search?
snovymgodym 3y ago
I don't think that's absurd. That's a realistic enough salary band for getting hired at Netflix across all levels (https://www.levels.fyi/companies/netflix/salaries/software-engineer https://www.levels.fyi/companies/netflix/salaries/software-e...). It's not like those job listings that put "$0-$1000000 a year" in the salary range just to check the box. For that role it's most likely, they're hiring multiple security engineers and will level based on experience - most people they hire will probably make $200k-$350k. But the right person (10+ YoE in Security, relevant experience at competing streaming companies, strong interview performance) could definitely negotiate themselves to the top end of that range.
Infinitesimus 3y ago
> $700k is clearly a salary someone got during the bubble. Research a bit about Netflix's comp philosophy and this will make more sense. It's not bubble compensation. They aim to beat what someone else will pay for your skills, as long as they want you working there. Until recently, they also only hired at a single IC level so the range was probably narrower.
- bearjaws 3y ago
  > They aim to beat what someone else will pay for your skills, as long as they want you working there. So what happened in 2020-2022 where everyone was willing to pay more and more for the same skill sets? I think we're agreeing on the same thing here, I am saying they will never pay $700k now, but they probably have someone at that comp level, so they have to list that in the range.
  - purpleblue 3y ago
    You have no idea what you're talking about, so please stop talking with such confidence. Netflix has always paid top of the market. They haven't dropped their salaries. Period, end of sentence.
  - liquidpele 3y ago
    They will, but it depends on previous work/level. The range is because they’ll hire you in for a position at your ideal level, not necessarily for the position you actually applied for.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  That looks like, essentially, the decision not to tie skill levels to job titles. Which is legitimate I guess. But the company needs to fill particular niches, right? So if their philosophy doesn’t allow them to advertise for more or less experienced coders, it seems like they are signing themselves up for a more difficult filtering problem? I guess that’s why they are unusual. If this sort of thing became really widespread, it would be easy to write a law with more onerous reporting requirements. Maybe we should require a distribution of salaries for that role, for example.
purpleblue 3y ago
Every one of these comments so far are from people that have no idea how much Netflix pays. $600k-700k for a Senior Software Engineer at Netflix is about expected. Also keep in mind, they pay all cash, so this isn't a "Total Compensation" number. I have a friend who made over $1 million cash at Netflix per year. Their philosophy is to pay top of market for the best talent.
- macNchz 3y ago
  Then why do they start the range at $100k?
  - bearjaws 3y ago
    Exactly what I was questioning in my post.
paulcole 3y ago
> How is someone supposed to reasonably negotiate that role? Ask for what you want. If I'm making a salary I'm excited to earn, why do I care if I left money on the table? I'm happy! If I'm happy, somebody else being a better negotiator than me doesn't make me unhappy. If something in the future makes me unhappy about the salary I'm earning, then I'll address that in the future.
varispeed 3y ago
You are asking wrong question. Salary range is what they can offer, but you should know your own value. If you think your time is worth $400k then ask $400k. It is simple as that. At one point you should know what amount of money would drive you to get out of bed and do whatever client wants.
Aurornis 3y ago
> How is someone supposed to reasonably negotiate that role? $100k is clearly a joke, $700k is clearly a salary someone got during the bubble. Netflix does actually compensate within this range, though. The alternatives to these wide ranges are: 1. Create a lot of different postings with different ranges. This is how companies end up with Junior Engineer, Engineer, Senior Engineer, Staff Engineer, Senior Staff Engineer and other titles for what might be the same headcount. If someone comes in with skills and compensation expectations that don’t match the job they applied for, they get bumped to a different job listing. Nothing actually changes, but now the salary ranges are narrower in the job postings. 2. Give everyone similar base compensation and make the difference up in bonuses and RSUs, which aren’t posted in the job listings. These listings usually have lower compensation listed to signal the candidate that RSUs are going to be significant. For example, you’ll see Meta posting jobs with comp down to $129K even though everyone knows they’re going to get more RSUs than base comp. I’ve seen more companies claim to pay everyone the same, with the fine print being that equity grants can vary greatly from person to person. Really though, I think highly compensated devs need to acknowledge that this law wasn’t made for them. It was made for the people applying to jobs where they don’t know if the typical compensation is $18/hr or $30/hr, or people who have been earning $45K for years who haven’t realized that their peers are getting $60K. When someone is applying to $450K jobs at Netflix, they have numerous resources from levels.fyi to Blind that will reveal far more than a number on a job listing will. The law is not for highly compensated SWEs applying to the top 0.1% of jobs.
jampekka 3y ago
Double the median salary is clearly a joke? White collar pay has gotten totally out of hand.
- digging 3y ago
  In context, yes. For a senior engineering role at one of humanity's biggest richest companies in a very HCOL location, $100k is ludicrously low. Now, I agree that pay ranges across our economy are completely out of touch with reason, but in this context it would be downright stupid to take $100k for that role when non-FAANG could pay you more.
yodsanklai 3y ago
It's not absurd, it's an actual range. I don't know about Netflix specifically, but I think it works that way: They know you resume, and how well you did at the interview. Based on that, they'll make you an offer which you can negotiate only slightly. It's also better to have a competing offer. Conversely, you should have some idea of how much you're worth and where you fit in that $100-$700K range.
jejeyyy77 3y ago
If you fully meet said requirements, you anchor at $700K as per the ad - and then negotiate from there.
INGSOCIALITE 3y ago
That’s what I’ve seen as well, it’s always a range with a huuuuuge gap. No one is posting the actual expected salary. It’s almost a scam, I could post a job listing with a salary of “$0 to $1,000,000,000.00”. It’s the same as not posting a salary number at all
- altdataseller 3y ago
  The median range is somewhere around 40%, that is the max is 40% or so above the min. That’s based on my analysis of over 5 million job postings with salary ranges in them. A subset here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0Xap2Qt1bzY-8OA1GqkcV8IQzQtVsx2j4pNrGlpjqs/edit https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0Xap2Qt1bzY-8OA1Gqk.... Which is around what most salary ranges for a specific job grade have [1] That’s my data, not my gut. So yes, there are absurd ones, but it’s not the vast majority by far. So don’t throw the baby out with the bath water based on some outliers [1] https://www.aihr.com/hr-glossary/range-spread/#:~:text=A%20good%20salary%20range%20spread,job%20level%2C%20and%20the%20industry https://www.aihr.com/hr-glossary/range-spread/#:~:text=A%20g....
oooyay 3y ago
> How is someone supposed to reasonably negotiate that role? $100k is clearly a joke, $700k is clearly a salary someone got during the bubble. $100K is easily a junior salary. $700K is a Principal plus salary in "big tech". A huge portion of that is RSU's and there may be weight thrown into personal performance with certain goals that align to company objectives. There are certain SRE jobs that are designed this way, especially if you're on the policy or proactive software development side of SRE work where the products you build (policy or software) take time to build and have huge associated returns in terms of monetary and customer trust. For reference, my first SRE job was $75k/year.
- michaelteter 3y ago
  The post says L4. That’s not junior or principal, it’s L4 (lower/middle). Given the specific level, the salary range is indeed absurd.
  - oooyay 3y ago
    Yeah, providing a range when they specify the level is unethical, I agree
    - michaelteter 3y ago
      A range appropriate for the stated level is reasonable, but a range that (apparantely) encompasses their entire set of levels doesn't make sense. I would seriously wonder if the 100-700k part of the post was a mistake, because that would probably turn off a lot of candidates (preventing them from even applying).
kevinsync 3y ago
Earlier this year I read some commentary about how those wild salary ranges are in part a response to California's Pay Transparency Act -- basically, give a gigantic and irrelevant range to satisfy the letter of the law, not the spirit of the law. No clue if there's any truth to that though. https://californiapayroll.com/blog/sb-1162-california-pay-transparency-law/ https://californiapayroll.com/blog/sb-1162-california-pay-tr...
ttymck 3y ago
Netflix is probably the _only_ company I can think of where that range is defensible.
JohnFen 3y ago
> How is someone supposed to reasonably negotiate that role? I don't think I fully understand this question. When I apply for a position, I already know what my minimum salary requirement is, and I negotiate based on that. Any published salary range doesn't affect that, except that if my minimum is above their maximum, then I know not to bother applying.
dantyti 3y ago
> $100k is clearly a joke, $700k is clearly... These are just your assumptions, but I aggree. However, when I see job posts with ranges like these, I just avoid the company, since it shows me that the company is: -lowballing employees -not transparent (i.e., posting nonsense salary ranges just to tick off the requirement)
mock-possum 3y ago
I just applied for an engineer position that listed it’s salary range as $130k-$190k - and part of the application process asked for a salary range, to which I replied $130k-$190k - what’s the point of that? Just say “this position starts at $130k” and let the details get worked out during the hiring process.
altdataseller 3y ago
The median range is somewhere around 40%, that is the max is 40% or so above the min. That’s based on my analysis of over 5 million job postings with salary ranges in them. A subset here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0Xap2Qt1bzY-8OA1GqkcV8IQzQtVsx2j4pNrGlpjqs/edit https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0Xap2Qt1bzY-8OA1Gqk.... Which is around what most salary ranges for a specific job grade have [1] That’s my data, which you requested, so yes, there are absurd ones, but it’s not the vast majority by far. So don’t throw the baby out with the bath water based on one outlier you just found [1] https://www.aihr.com/hr-glossary/range-spread/#:~:text=A%20good%20salary%20range%20spread,job%20level%2C%20and%20the%20industry https://www.aihr.com/hr-glossary/range-spread/#:~:text=A%20g....

linuxftw 3y ago

This is an often proffered limitation of these laws, but there are second order effects. If someone hires a woman, minority, whatever else, at the $100k rate with the same qualifications they typically hire X group at the $700k rate, they're going to have some 'splainin' to do.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Perfect is the enemy of good enough. If laws are found to have bugs, you keep patching them over time to close the loopholes.
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  Unfortunately, the patch cycle for laws is, by design, incredibly slow.
  - Retric 3y ago
    Luckily humans don’t change quickly. 1870’s era anti trust issues are still relevant in 2023. Problem shows up 150+ years ago and we’re still dealing with it. Slow patch times are often a feature. Laws that solve problems can seem irrelevant when those problems go away.
- altdataseller 3y ago
  Exactly, and so there are a few outliers that don’t follow the spirit or good faith of the law. Guess what? You can ignore them! Nobody says you have to apply. There are plenty of other companies that are publishing informative salary ranges
nightski 3y ago
But if it isn't a minority or woman then whatever right?
- howenterprisey 3y ago
  What's your point? Their point was that these scales can help provide evidence of minorities and women getting paid less. Can you expand on what we could learn from the situation of two people getting different salaries when they're neither minorities nor women?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - nightski 3y ago
    My point was that singling out minorities or women is not necessary, it applies to all humans. Although I think what you end up is a mediocre salary for everyone, not just those who negotiate poorly. By setting the salary range tightly it prevents market forces from affecting pay much.
    - linuxftw 3y ago
      Unfortunately, grouping people is the only way to enforce these laws in the US. You have to prove you were discriminated against because you are part of some protected group.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]

thebradbain 3y ago

A big range like that means you should feel more than fine selecting the average— so $400k— at the minimum. Anything less and you’re essentially admitting you don’t think you’re worth what the salary range is. Personally I would ask for clarification, and if they refuse to provide any, ask for near or above the top-end of the range. Theres plenty of $215k salary jobs currently, so if you happen to not land this one, then no loss of what you never had. But if you happen to get this job, making $700k, simply for asking, then congrats!

joncrocks 3y ago
The issue is that if you're currently making $200K, it's hard to tell where they might think you might sit in that scale up-front. It's a bit like saying "Employee - $10K-$10M p/a" - It's not very useful in a job posting, as you might reasonably assume someone being paid the top salary is not actually doing the same role as at the bottom range.
- otteromkram 3y ago
  If they aren't doing the same role, then why are salaries for two different roles listed under a single job requisition?
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    Because outside of government and certain (but not all) bigcorps, knowledge worker jobs aren’t “find a cog to fit a precise position in a larger machine” things. Heck, even in government they often aren't, though the rules governing government hiring force people to superficially hire as if they were.
vsareto 3y ago
Most people don't know what a $400k Security Engineer actually does to warrant that pay because you can probably find a similar job at another company that pays much less and probably makes you work more. I sure as fuck don't and I at least have one pentesting cert FWIW. This pricing scheme punishes people trying to be honest about their skill set. Otherwise why stop at the average? Just max it out and ask for $700k. Another $300k/yr won't break Netflix's bank and everyone else is getting rich that they won't care to call you out either.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

>How is someone supposed to reasonably negotiate that role? Get a competing job offer. A minimum price lets labor sellers know if it is worth applying or not, and trends in supply and demand for that type of labor (based on which way the minimums are moving industry wide).

photonbeam 3y ago
The timing on this is rather difficult though, and its non trivial time and effort
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  In any market, sellers should always be constantly seeking buyers and negotiating prices if they are interested in receiving the highest prices.
buildbot 3y ago
or “unethically” (depending on your ethics!), you could just _say_ you have a competing offer. Unless there is like some secret hiring manager slack where people ask each other “did you really send that person an offer?”.
- rglullis 3y ago
  There is, but if I give more details my life will be in danger.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
  You don’t even have to disclose the company during negotiation, I’ve simply said “I have an offer from a Series A company with X equity and Y salary” so they have something to benchmark against
- tyingq 3y ago
  You did used to be able to similarly overstate your current salary, and then something quite a lot more formal than "secret slack channel" evolved. And it's often not accurate. Urgh.

wredue 3y ago

Does Netflix do location based pay? Could explain that. Not that I necessarily agree with location based pay scales. I haven’t really thought about this idea tbh. On one hand, a company can get location based pay scales simply by having an office in a different area. On the other, if you’re hired in San Fran and working remotely in (some much cheaper to live place) then it’s not really the same. Obviously, the state is benefiting much less from this scenario.

barryrandall 3y ago

Don't apply. The employer is showing you how they operate when they're trying to impress candidates. Do you really want to find out what they do when they know your best alternative is a job search?

snovymgodym 3y ago

I don't think that's absurd. That's a realistic enough salary band for getting hired at Netflix across all levels (https://www.levels.fyi/companies/netflix/salaries/software-engineer https://www.levels.fyi/companies/netflix/salaries/software-e...). It's not like those job listings that put "$0-$1000000 a year" in the salary range just to check the box. For that role it's most likely, they're hiring multiple security engineers and will level based on experience - most people they hire will probably make $200k-$350k. But the right person (10+ YoE in Security, relevant experience at competing streaming companies, strong interview performance) could definitely negotiate themselves to the top end of that range.

Infinitesimus 3y ago

> $700k is clearly a salary someone got during the bubble. Research a bit about Netflix's comp philosophy and this will make more sense. It's not bubble compensation. They aim to beat what someone else will pay for your skills, as long as they want you working there. Until recently, they also only hired at a single IC level so the range was probably narrower.

bearjaws 3y ago
> They aim to beat what someone else will pay for your skills, as long as they want you working there. So what happened in 2020-2022 where everyone was willing to pay more and more for the same skill sets? I think we're agreeing on the same thing here, I am saying they will never pay $700k now, but they probably have someone at that comp level, so they have to list that in the range.
- purpleblue 3y ago
  You have no idea what you're talking about, so please stop talking with such confidence. Netflix has always paid top of the market. They haven't dropped their salaries. Period, end of sentence.
- liquidpele 3y ago
  They will, but it depends on previous work/level. The range is because they’ll hire you in for a position at your ideal level, not necessarily for the position you actually applied for.
bee_rider 3y ago
That looks like, essentially, the decision not to tie skill levels to job titles. Which is legitimate I guess. But the company needs to fill particular niches, right? So if their philosophy doesn’t allow them to advertise for more or less experienced coders, it seems like they are signing themselves up for a more difficult filtering problem? I guess that’s why they are unusual. If this sort of thing became really widespread, it would be easy to write a law with more onerous reporting requirements. Maybe we should require a distribution of salaries for that role, for example.

purpleblue 3y ago

Every one of these comments so far are from people that have no idea how much Netflix pays. $600k-700k for a Senior Software Engineer at Netflix is about expected. Also keep in mind, they pay all cash, so this isn't a "Total Compensation" number. I have a friend who made over $1 million cash at Netflix per year. Their philosophy is to pay top of market for the best talent.

macNchz 3y ago
Then why do they start the range at $100k?
- bearjaws 3y ago
  Exactly what I was questioning in my post.

paulcole 3y ago

> How is someone supposed to reasonably negotiate that role? Ask for what you want. If I'm making a salary I'm excited to earn, why do I care if I left money on the table? I'm happy! If I'm happy, somebody else being a better negotiator than me doesn't make me unhappy. If something in the future makes me unhappy about the salary I'm earning, then I'll address that in the future.

varispeed 3y ago

You are asking wrong question. Salary range is what they can offer, but you should know your own value. If you think your time is worth $400k then ask $400k. It is simple as that. At one point you should know what amount of money would drive you to get out of bed and do whatever client wants.

Aurornis 3y ago

> How is someone supposed to reasonably negotiate that role? $100k is clearly a joke, $700k is clearly a salary someone got during the bubble. Netflix does actually compensate within this range, though. The alternatives to these wide ranges are: 1. Create a lot of different postings with different ranges. This is how companies end up with Junior Engineer, Engineer, Senior Engineer, Staff Engineer, Senior Staff Engineer and other titles for what might be the same headcount. If someone comes in with skills and compensation expectations that don’t match the job they applied for, they get bumped to a different job listing. Nothing actually changes, but now the salary ranges are narrower in the job postings. 2. Give everyone similar base compensation and make the difference up in bonuses and RSUs, which aren’t posted in the job listings. These listings usually have lower compensation listed to signal the candidate that RSUs are going to be significant. For example, you’ll see Meta posting jobs with comp down to $129K even though everyone knows they’re going to get more RSUs than base comp. I’ve seen more companies claim to pay everyone the same, with the fine print being that equity grants can vary greatly from person to person. Really though, I think highly compensated devs need to acknowledge that this law wasn’t made for them. It was made for the people applying to jobs where they don’t know if the typical compensation is $18/hr or $30/hr, or people who have been earning $45K for years who haven’t realized that their peers are getting $60K. When someone is applying to $450K jobs at Netflix, they have numerous resources from levels.fyi to Blind that will reveal far more than a number on a job listing will. The law is not for highly compensated SWEs applying to the top 0.1% of jobs.

jampekka 3y ago

Double the median salary is clearly a joke? White collar pay has gotten totally out of hand.

digging 3y ago
In context, yes. For a senior engineering role at one of humanity's biggest richest companies in a very HCOL location, $100k is ludicrously low. Now, I agree that pay ranges across our economy are completely out of touch with reason, but in this context it would be downright stupid to take $100k for that role when non-FAANG could pay you more.

yodsanklai 3y ago

It's not absurd, it's an actual range. I don't know about Netflix specifically, but I think it works that way: They know you resume, and how well you did at the interview. Based on that, they'll make you an offer which you can negotiate only slightly. It's also better to have a competing offer. Conversely, you should have some idea of how much you're worth and where you fit in that $100-$700K range.

jejeyyy77 3y ago

If you fully meet said requirements, you anchor at $700K as per the ad - and then negotiate from there.

INGSOCIALITE 3y ago

That’s what I’ve seen as well, it’s always a range with a huuuuuge gap. No one is posting the actual expected salary. It’s almost a scam, I could post a job listing with a salary of “$0 to $1,000,000,000.00”. It’s the same as not posting a salary number at all

altdataseller 3y ago
The median range is somewhere around 40%, that is the max is 40% or so above the min. That’s based on my analysis of over 5 million job postings with salary ranges in them. A subset here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0Xap2Qt1bzY-8OA1GqkcV8IQzQtVsx2j4pNrGlpjqs/edit https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0Xap2Qt1bzY-8OA1Gqk.... Which is around what most salary ranges for a specific job grade have [1] That’s my data, not my gut. So yes, there are absurd ones, but it’s not the vast majority by far. So don’t throw the baby out with the bath water based on some outliers [1] https://www.aihr.com/hr-glossary/range-spread/#:~:text=A%20good%20salary%20range%20spread,job%20level%2C%20and%20the%20industry https://www.aihr.com/hr-glossary/range-spread/#:~:text=A%20g....

oooyay 3y ago

> How is someone supposed to reasonably negotiate that role? $100k is clearly a joke, $700k is clearly a salary someone got during the bubble. $100K is easily a junior salary. $700K is a Principal plus salary in "big tech". A huge portion of that is RSU's and there may be weight thrown into personal performance with certain goals that align to company objectives. There are certain SRE jobs that are designed this way, especially if you're on the policy or proactive software development side of SRE work where the products you build (policy or software) take time to build and have huge associated returns in terms of monetary and customer trust. For reference, my first SRE job was $75k/year.

michaelteter 3y ago
The post says L4. That’s not junior or principal, it’s L4 (lower/middle). Given the specific level, the salary range is indeed absurd.
- oooyay 3y ago
  Yeah, providing a range when they specify the level is unethical, I agree
  - michaelteter 3y ago
    A range appropriate for the stated level is reasonable, but a range that (apparantely) encompasses their entire set of levels doesn't make sense. I would seriously wonder if the 100-700k part of the post was a mistake, because that would probably turn off a lot of candidates (preventing them from even applying).

kevinsync 3y ago

Earlier this year I read some commentary about how those wild salary ranges are in part a response to California's Pay Transparency Act -- basically, give a gigantic and irrelevant range to satisfy the letter of the law, not the spirit of the law. No clue if there's any truth to that though. https://californiapayroll.com/blog/sb-1162-california-pay-transparency-law/ https://californiapayroll.com/blog/sb-1162-california-pay-tr...

ttymck 3y ago

Netflix is probably the _only_ company I can think of where that range is defensible.

JohnFen 3y ago

> How is someone supposed to reasonably negotiate that role? I don't think I fully understand this question. When I apply for a position, I already know what my minimum salary requirement is, and I negotiate based on that. Any published salary range doesn't affect that, except that if my minimum is above their maximum, then I know not to bother applying.

dantyti 3y ago

> $100k is clearly a joke, $700k is clearly... These are just your assumptions, but I aggree. However, when I see job posts with ranges like these, I just avoid the company, since it shows me that the company is: -lowballing employees -not transparent (i.e., posting nonsense salary ranges just to tick off the requirement)

mock-possum 3y ago

I just applied for an engineer position that listed it’s salary range as $130k-$190k - and part of the application process asked for a salary range, to which I replied $130k-$190k - what’s the point of that? Just say “this position starts at $130k” and let the details get worked out during the hiring process.

altdataseller 3y ago

The median range is somewhere around 40%, that is the max is 40% or so above the min. That’s based on my analysis of over 5 million job postings with salary ranges in them. A subset here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0Xap2Qt1bzY-8OA1GqkcV8IQzQtVsx2j4pNrGlpjqs/edit https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0Xap2Qt1bzY-8OA1Gqk.... Which is around what most salary ranges for a specific job grade have [1] That’s my data, which you requested, so yes, there are absurd ones, but it’s not the vast majority by far. So don’t throw the baby out with the bath water based on one outlier you just found [1] https://www.aihr.com/hr-glossary/range-spread/#:~:text=A%20good%20salary%20range%20spread,job%20level%2C%20and%20the%20industry https://www.aihr.com/hr-glossary/range-spread/#:~:text=A%20g....