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You are totally wrong. SpaceX is deeply entangled with NASA and DoD. And their primary IP is protected under US regulation, nobody can 'take it away'. And Space

by nickik 3y ago

You are totally wrong. SpaceX is deeply entangled with NASA and DoD. And their primary IP is protected under US regulation, nobody can 'take it away'. And SpaceX launch site and team are essentially purely American. Its crazy to suggested that they could be 'lured away', its a total misunderstanding of the space industry.

pixl97 3y ago
Yea, it's like they don't know what ITAR is. If you tried to walk away with the technology men with guns would take it back, you would come back too, dead if you decided to put up resistance.
- avmich 3y ago
  I feel both sides are exaggerating here - "lured with right combination" and "men with guns". Both of these aren't really working like this in our world.
  - adventured 3y ago
    The dead part is the only exaggeration. That would be a last resort. If you tried to pack up SpaceX (so to speak) and its technology and move it overseas, the FBI would arrest you and promptly stop you. If you put a fight, they would respond accordingly. That's assuming you were in a position to order that attempted move (you'd have to be Musk, Shotwell probably couldn't get very far given Musk's ownership position). SpaceX is a very significant national security matter for the US Government and military industrial complex. Of course they would kill you if you legitimately threatened that critical cornerstone; first they'd try to reason with you, maybe subtly threaten you not to try it, then they'd attempt to arrest you (and then in private try to make their point more loudly); if there were no other options, they would kill you to stop the transfer. This isn't Medtronic or Anheuser-Busch we're talking about. The machine that invades countries, topples governments, takes on other superpowers (Nazi Germany, Empire of Japan, Soviet Union, Russia, China), fights massive wars as it deems necessary (WW2, Korea, Vietnam), and kills people professionally - it needs SpaceX at this point in time (and the future edge that SpaceX launch capabilities may provide).
    - ethbr1 3y ago
      It's not just SpaceX's value to the United States, it's value against. Rockets make things go up. Accurate rockets can also make payloads land where they want... ... like on cities.
    - criddell 3y ago
      All of that depends on having a president and congress that would refuse to approve the transfer. Right now, it’s not going anywhere but who knows what the next administration or two might bring to the table. It also helps when you own a major social media platform when you are trying to get something done.
      - nickik 3y ago
        I'm sorry but is just nonsense? Go where? To Russia or China, that would never be allowed. To Europe? And even if it was allowed, the infrastructure and people are here, this would be a decade long transition. This is just so utterly and completely unlikely that the chance for it happening is so close to 0% that its practically irrelevant. I think only because its Musk would people come up with scenarios like this.
        trilbyglens 3y ago
        The only region that could reasonably host SpaceX would be the middle east. You'd get the Saudis or the Qataris using their money cannon to get what they want, and setting up launch operations in the desert, staffed by untaxed and overpaid expats from all over the globe.
  - belval 3y ago
    Ehh ITAR is very serious, national security level stuff. Sure it's not like agents will have you assassinated, but you will definitely be taken by men with guns (the police/FBI) if you try and export that tech.
    - avmich 3y ago
      I wonder how do you know it. There was some discussion in some rocketry forum of possible collisions between tech export and the First Amendment. I think this is still a somewhat open question.
      - pixl97 3y ago
        You may end up in case of "You can avoid the rap, but you cannot avoid the ride". And the avoidance would cost a lot. Of course you might get a national security letter silencing you from even talking to the judges, getting put in a nice trap if you try to garner support to defend yourself on what you did you could run into further issues.
        ethbr1 3y ago
        The party across the table is the US Dept of State, and all its friends. A reasonable person probably doesn't want to be on the other side of that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arms_Regulations#Enforcement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arm... SpaceX would only be willing to make that jump if it were fine never getting a contract from the US government again, which means the US economy and/or state imploded.
trilbyglens 3y ago
And completely aside from that, I really really doubt you'll find people willing to stomach the Musk management/work style outside the US. Just look at the Tesla strikes in Europe. Americans for of uniquely have the skills and organizational ability, combined with a brutalized work ethic that allows for things like SpaceX to succeed in such a short time.

by nickik 3y ago

pixl97 3y ago

Yea, it's like they don't know what ITAR is. If you tried to walk away with the technology men with guns would take it back, you would come back too, dead if you decided to put up resistance.

avmich 3y ago
I feel both sides are exaggerating here - "lured with right combination" and "men with guns". Both of these aren't really working like this in our world.
- adventured 3y ago
  The dead part is the only exaggeration. That would be a last resort. If you tried to pack up SpaceX (so to speak) and its technology and move it overseas, the FBI would arrest you and promptly stop you. If you put a fight, they would respond accordingly. That's assuming you were in a position to order that attempted move (you'd have to be Musk, Shotwell probably couldn't get very far given Musk's ownership position). SpaceX is a very significant national security matter for the US Government and military industrial complex. Of course they would kill you if you legitimately threatened that critical cornerstone; first they'd try to reason with you, maybe subtly threaten you not to try it, then they'd attempt to arrest you (and then in private try to make their point more loudly); if there were no other options, they would kill you to stop the transfer. This isn't Medtronic or Anheuser-Busch we're talking about. The machine that invades countries, topples governments, takes on other superpowers (Nazi Germany, Empire of Japan, Soviet Union, Russia, China), fights massive wars as it deems necessary (WW2, Korea, Vietnam), and kills people professionally - it needs SpaceX at this point in time (and the future edge that SpaceX launch capabilities may provide).
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    It's not just SpaceX's value to the United States, it's value against. Rockets make things go up. Accurate rockets can also make payloads land where they want... ... like on cities.
  - criddell 3y ago
    All of that depends on having a president and congress that would refuse to approve the transfer. Right now, it’s not going anywhere but who knows what the next administration or two might bring to the table. It also helps when you own a major social media platform when you are trying to get something done.
    - nickik 3y ago
      I'm sorry but is just nonsense? Go where? To Russia or China, that would never be allowed. To Europe? And even if it was allowed, the infrastructure and people are here, this would be a decade long transition. This is just so utterly and completely unlikely that the chance for it happening is so close to 0% that its practically irrelevant. I think only because its Musk would people come up with scenarios like this.
      - trilbyglens 3y ago
        The only region that could reasonably host SpaceX would be the middle east. You'd get the Saudis or the Qataris using their money cannon to get what they want, and setting up launch operations in the desert, staffed by untaxed and overpaid expats from all over the globe.
- belval 3y ago
  Ehh ITAR is very serious, national security level stuff. Sure it's not like agents will have you assassinated, but you will definitely be taken by men with guns (the police/FBI) if you try and export that tech.
  - avmich 3y ago
    I wonder how do you know it. There was some discussion in some rocketry forum of possible collisions between tech export and the First Amendment. I think this is still a somewhat open question.
    - pixl97 3y ago
      You may end up in case of "You can avoid the rap, but you cannot avoid the ride". And the avoidance would cost a lot. Of course you might get a national security letter silencing you from even talking to the judges, getting put in a nice trap if you try to garner support to defend yourself on what you did you could run into further issues.
      - ethbr1 3y ago
        The party across the table is the US Dept of State, and all its friends. A reasonable person probably doesn't want to be on the other side of that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arms_Regulations#Enforcement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arm... SpaceX would only be willing to make that jump if it were fine never getting a contract from the US government again, which means the US economy and/or state imploded.

trilbyglens 3y ago

And completely aside from that, I really really doubt you'll find people willing to stomach the Musk management/work style outside the US. Just look at the Tesla strikes in Europe. Americans for of uniquely have the skills and organizational ability, combined with a brutalized work ethic that allows for things like SpaceX to succeed in such a short time.