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What if the algorithm turns out to be tuned in such a way as to essentially never reduce prices? That is, the algorithm is deliberately crafted in such a way so

What if the algorithm turns out to be tuned in such a way as to essentially never reduce prices? That is, the algorithm is deliberately crafted in such a way so as to always favor the renters vs the rentees, could that weigh into the argument at all?

alephnerd 3y ago
Idk. To me at least, what the algorithm is doing doesn't actually matter. What actually matters is whether a set of players using a singular algorithm can count as price fixing or not. Like is that coordination or not? This is a fundamental question for the entire API industry, ML Industry, and any other industry dependent on algorithms.
- minkzilla 3y ago
  I think that is a good question. I am not 100% but I do think you could take the algorithm to extremes and it does matter. Algorithm A - professionally_evaluated_price + inflation Algorithm B - average_price_of_cohort_you_agreed_to_join + 0.01 The first algorithm is super simple and is conceivably how many landlords might do it anyway and is based on value of your goods. Everyone using it wouldn't raise prices or hurt consumers. The second algorithm is basically agreeing with a cohort that you will never undercut each other and slowly raise prices. This obviously hurts renters and raises prices.
  - chii 3y ago
    but algorithm B requires that the cohort you joined be big enough to have a material effect on the market price of said goods/services. So at that point, it's not the algorithm, but the cohort that's at fault of price fixing. So is there proof that you joined a cohort? Does using the same software count as joining a cohort?
    - fbdab103 3y ago
      These two bullet points from the article seem to indicate that RealPage covers a large swath of the market, and that compliance is mandatory. >The software company actively "polices" landlords to ensure that they comply with the rent cost it generates, the lawsuit alleges. Failure to impose the RealPage rents could lead to landlords being expelled from the organization, according to the suit. > RealPage's software has set the rent at more than 30% of apartments in multifamily buildings in D.C. and 60% of units in large multifamily buildings, per the lawsuit. The percentages are even higher for the broader D.C. metro area.
    - minkzilla 3y ago
      Do you have to be successful in price fixing for it to be illegal or is just trying to price fix enough? That is a serious question - I do not know.

alephnerd 3y ago

Idk. To me at least, what the algorithm is doing doesn't actually matter. What actually matters is whether a set of players using a singular algorithm can count as price fixing or not. Like is that coordination or not? This is a fundamental question for the entire API industry, ML Industry, and any other industry dependent on algorithms.

minkzilla 3y ago
I think that is a good question. I am not 100% but I do think you could take the algorithm to extremes and it does matter. Algorithm A - professionally_evaluated_price + inflation Algorithm B - average_price_of_cohort_you_agreed_to_join + 0.01 The first algorithm is super simple and is conceivably how many landlords might do it anyway and is based on value of your goods. Everyone using it wouldn't raise prices or hurt consumers. The second algorithm is basically agreeing with a cohort that you will never undercut each other and slowly raise prices. This obviously hurts renters and raises prices.
- chii 3y ago
  but algorithm B requires that the cohort you joined be big enough to have a material effect on the market price of said goods/services. So at that point, it's not the algorithm, but the cohort that's at fault of price fixing. So is there proof that you joined a cohort? Does using the same software count as joining a cohort?
  - fbdab103 3y ago
    These two bullet points from the article seem to indicate that RealPage covers a large swath of the market, and that compliance is mandatory. >The software company actively "polices" landlords to ensure that they comply with the rent cost it generates, the lawsuit alleges. Failure to impose the RealPage rents could lead to landlords being expelled from the organization, according to the suit. > RealPage's software has set the rent at more than 30% of apartments in multifamily buildings in D.C. and 60% of units in large multifamily buildings, per the lawsuit. The percentages are even higher for the broader D.C. metro area.
  - minkzilla 3y ago
    Do you have to be successful in price fixing for it to be illegal or is just trying to price fix enough? That is a serious question - I do not know.