7 ms·

~20 years ago there have been websites running on 8-bit chips consuming 400 bytes of ROM and 32 bytes of RAM (e.g. http://web.archive.org/web/20050601082859/htt

by raxi 3y ago

~20 years ago there have been websites running on 8-bit chips consuming 400 bytes of ROM and 32 bytes of RAM (e.g. http://web.archive.org/web/20050601082859/http://www-ccs.cs.umass.edu/~shri/iPic.html http://web.archive.org/web/20050601082859/http://www-ccs.cs...., an open-source clone: http://web.archive.org/web/20010109144200/http://www.chat.ru/~zhengxi/wwwpic/pic2.htm http://web.archive.org/web/20010109144200/http://www.chat.ru...) A 32-bit CPU is very rich

HelixEndeavor 3y ago
Well, given that the modern web has a lot more requirements for security to even permit most browsers to view a site, it makes sense that the base hardware needs have increased noticeably.
- raxi 3y ago
  Exactly those PIC18 devices, still in production and on sale, w/o any changes during the years: http://utronix.se/ http://utronix.se/ Of course, no https, but.. it is not a platform limitation, just an undemanded feature: how would you get a https cert for 192.168.0.1 or a similar intranet address where those device suppose to work? They are just not for cloud datacenters
  - Filligree 3y ago
    You can make an HTTPs certificate with that in the SAN section, and it should work fine. You can't get one from a publicly trusted provider, of course, but that's fine; you don't own the IP. In other words, make your own certificate authority for your own machines. It isn't that hard.
    - raxi 3y ago
      The problems here is not that hardness, and not even yearly certificate updates, or bothering with new certs on every IP address change, but (as the commentator above rightly pointed out)... 1. Planned obsolescence built into HTTPS: no HTTPS-aware server device from year 1999 would work with 2023 browsers. Just because "too old crypto". Plain HTTP works. Being on a buy side I am against HTTPS in such devices, but I understand the sell side's position.
russdill 3y ago
There's a big difference between http and https
- hermannj314 3y ago
  I'm not really sure I've drunk the kool-aid yet on why my static blog needs to be served securely over HTTPS. Edit: wow. Some people are super sensitive about what ports I serve text on. Good luck to you all in life.
  - JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 3y ago
    Some ISPs modify the content and inject ads in HTTP web sites.
    - VBprogrammer 3y ago
      If your ISP is this shitty you should probably take your money elsewhere.
      - smugma 3y ago
        ISP’s are often a monopoly or duopoly of equally shitty options.
        BrandoElFollito 3y ago
        Not everywhere though. The idea of an ISP in France injecting content is insane (and wild be completely illegal as well)
        northwest65 3y ago
        Then leave whatever tech backwater you live in and move to the first world.
        VBprogrammer 3y ago
Kevcmk 3y ago
You'd be a bad parent
strags 3y ago
I remember that PIC project. I don't know if source was ever released, but I recall a lot of folks being very dubious about the claims made. Quote: The PIC has 1024 words (12-bits) of program ROM, ~256 bytes contain a hand-crafted RFC1122-compliant implementation of TCP/IP including. HTTP/1.0 and i2c eeprom Filesystem, using 3 to 99 instructions. TCP and UDP protocol stack, using 70 to 99 instructions. ICMP [supports upto ping -s 11], using upto 14 instructions. IP - Internet Protocol, v4, using 68 to 77 instructions. SLIP - Serial Line IP packetisation, about 76 inst Fully buffered UART, upto 115200 bps, using 38 to 56 instructions. Operating system: RTOS with Rate Monotonic Analysis, using 3 to 15 instructions.

by raxi 3y ago

HelixEndeavor 3y ago

Well, given that the modern web has a lot more requirements for security to even permit most browsers to view a site, it makes sense that the base hardware needs have increased noticeably.

raxi 3y ago
Exactly those PIC18 devices, still in production and on sale, w/o any changes during the years: http://utronix.se/ http://utronix.se/ Of course, no https, but.. it is not a platform limitation, just an undemanded feature: how would you get a https cert for 192.168.0.1 or a similar intranet address where those device suppose to work? They are just not for cloud datacenters
- Filligree 3y ago
  You can make an HTTPs certificate with that in the SAN section, and it should work fine. You can't get one from a publicly trusted provider, of course, but that's fine; you don't own the IP. In other words, make your own certificate authority for your own machines. It isn't that hard.
  - raxi 3y ago
    The problems here is not that hardness, and not even yearly certificate updates, or bothering with new certs on every IP address change, but (as the commentator above rightly pointed out)... 1. Planned obsolescence built into HTTPS: no HTTPS-aware server device from year 1999 would work with 2023 browsers. Just because "too old crypto". Plain HTTP works. Being on a buy side I am against HTTPS in such devices, but I understand the sell side's position.

russdill 3y ago

There's a big difference between http and https

hermannj314 3y ago
I'm not really sure I've drunk the kool-aid yet on why my static blog needs to be served securely over HTTPS. Edit: wow. Some people are super sensitive about what ports I serve text on. Good luck to you all in life.
- JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 3y ago
  Some ISPs modify the content and inject ads in HTTP web sites.
  - VBprogrammer 3y ago
    If your ISP is this shitty you should probably take your money elsewhere.
    - smugma 3y ago
      ISP’s are often a monopoly or duopoly of equally shitty options.
      - BrandoElFollito 3y ago
        Not everywhere though. The idea of an ISP in France injecting content is insane (and wild be completely illegal as well)
      - northwest65 3y ago
        Then leave whatever tech backwater you live in and move to the first world.
        VBprogrammer 3y ago

Kevcmk 3y ago

You'd be a bad parent

strags 3y ago

I remember that PIC project. I don't know if source was ever released, but I recall a lot of folks being very dubious about the claims made. Quote: The PIC has 1024 words (12-bits) of program ROM, ~256 bytes contain a hand-crafted RFC1122-compliant implementation of TCP/IP including. HTTP/1.0 and i2c eeprom Filesystem, using 3 to 99 instructions. TCP and UDP protocol stack, using 70 to 99 instructions. ICMP [supports upto ping -s 11], using upto 14 instructions. IP - Internet Protocol, v4, using 68 to 77 instructions. SLIP - Serial Line IP packetisation, about 76 inst Fully buffered UART, upto 115200 bps, using 38 to 56 instructions. Operating system: RTOS with Rate Monotonic Analysis, using 3 to 15 instructions.