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Windows 10 PC will soon be 'junk'
- kwanbix 3y agoWindows 10 IoT is supported till 2034. Despite the name, this is a full fledge Windows Desktop. The full name is Windows 10 IOT ENTERPRISE LTSC 2021. It is the version I run on my PC. 99% of the PCs that can run Windows 10, can run Windows 11. The only problem is TPM, but if you burn your ISO to USB using Rufus, it has an option to disable TPM requirement. Or you can also install Linux. I don't see the problem here. Of course, it would be best if TPM was not an official (but skippable) requirement on Windows 11.
- tjoff 3y agoHow is Windows 10 iot relevant? And no, in many cases you can't install windows 11. You won't find the problem if you don't want to.
- kwanbix 3y agoWindows 10 IoT ENTERPRISE LTSC 2021 is a full Windows 10 version with support till 2034. The only requirement that I know of for Windows 11 is TPM. Burning the ISO to USB using Rufus removes this requirement.
- tjoff 3y agoWhich can't be bought by individuals. And even then, buy the same OS again so that it can run on the same hardware? And although I personally am a fan of LTSC it isn't what your typical user would expect. Besides, the problem isn't primarily about the computer geek that like to fiddle with the computer. But the single parent on a tight budget and no interest in computers. Your grandparents etc.
- vsareto 3y agoYou need specific hardware for Win 11. A motherboard for a Ryzen 7 I bought in only 2017 doesn't qualify.
- sukruh 3y agoMy 2019 MBP does not support Windows 11 in Boot Camp.
- kwanbix 3y agoThe only requirement is TPM. If you burn the ISO to USB using Rufus, it disables the requirement and it works just fine.
- timw4mail 3y agoAnd a supported CPU. Zen 1 is not officially supported, in spite of how new it was when 11 was released. But yes, Rufus removes the stupid requirements.
- snailmailman 3y agoWindows 10 iot is not windows 10. I don’t think it even has a desktop. It’s designed for embedded not a personal computer. It’s designed for machines that run one program only. You can’t always “install windows 11 easily” the system requirements for 11 shut out a lot of older machines arbitrarily. Windows thinks my relatively new machine, built in 2020 with modern hardware, “doesn’t meet the system requirements” because it “doesn’t have a tpm” (it does). I think a bios change fixes it? But for now it keeps me on 10 and that’s fine with me. Using Linux is an option, but not an easy one for many users.
- Aaron2222 3y agoWindows 10 IOT Core isn't. Windows 10 IOT Enterprise is though[0]. Good luck getting a legit license for it however. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_IoT#Enterprise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_IoT#Enterprise
- sgjohnson 3y ago> Good luck getting a legit license for it however. It’s possible (with much effort) to get a legit licence for Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC. But just get an evaluation copy, promote it to volume and KMS activate it and save yourself the hassle.
- wkat4242 3y agoMSDN is enough to get several.
- tremon 3y agoMSDN-acquired licenses can't be used in production. Probably doesn't matter much for home usage, but I wouldn't use an MSDN license on anything I use for work.
- wkat4242 3y agoI use them all the time for lab work. What they're meant for. If you really need LTSC for prod they are available too as such :)
- lukeschlather 3y agoLinux doesn't solve the problem of TPM support, and in fact it kind of illustrates exactly the problem. There are a lot of services that you cannot use unless your device supports DRM with a certain set of properties. These services are the main reason that Linux is basically unusable as your only device. So Microsoft is basically making the decision that you need a new device if you want to use apps that have a certain security level, and rather than just disabling those apps they've elected to disable the entire operating system.
- bitzun 3y agoCan you give an example of any current services that you can't use without TPM? I haven't run into any (yet!)
- wkat4242 3y agoNot sure if TPM related but Spotify doesn't even let me log in in Firefox on FreeBSD.
- lukeschlather 3y agoThe Peacock streaming service will not run at all on Linux and my understanding is that this is because it requires the OS provide a certain level of DRM. A main goal of mandating a certain TPM level to run Windows is clearly so that they can provide TPM-backed DRM APIs that are enforced at the OS level and can't be worked around in software. I'm not sure if anything actually requires TPM per se yet because they still need to support Windows 10 but it's clearly the eventual goal.
- ksaj 3y agoWindows iot is designed to work on small devices such as the Raspberry Pi, and it is not a desktop operating system. You can run scripts on it, do things directly with the hardware, and that's about it. The point is that a lot of perfectly good hardware out there that can run Windows 10 cannot run Windows 11 "easily" or at all. My laptop is one such a device. Even if it would let me, the dual core cpu would be unbearable under that environment. Installing Linux is not a problem for people interested in using Linux. Younger people are more exposed to Linux because of devices like Raspberry Pi (the one place where "Linux on the Desktop" is absolutely a thing!). But there are a lot of folks who have never used Linux, and probably never will. And their systems will be more landfill fodder.
- kwanbix 3y agoI run windows 10 iot on my machine. Is not for raspberry pi, at least not the x64 version. Of course it is a desktop operating system. I doubt there is a PC that can run windows 10 that cannot run windows 11.
- wkat4242 3y agoYou're confusing the IoT core one that doesn't have a desktop. The LTSC IoT has a desktop and works fine.
- ksaj 3y agoYou are right. Thanks for the correction. I don't use either, although I have seen the Core install on someone else's Raspberry Pi.
- paulryanrogers 3y agoIt should be a legal requirement for platforms dominant in their industry to provide security updates until the hardware is at least 15yo, or include source with a license allowing for modification. It is crazy that they can just abandon hardware that drove sales of their software after only a few years.
- ksaj 3y agoI would say it is even worse when considering tablets and smart phones, and maybe even laptops (although they have a significantly better shelf life than tablets and smart phones). They are garbage the moment the battery ages out. For some tablets, that meant one or if very lucky, two years. That's a lot of nice screens to the bin for something that otherwise should be trivial to replace.
- ta988 3y agoI have a nexus tablet and ipads that are 10 years old and they still work. The iPad I had to repurpose in a osc controller because of lack of updates but the nexus still works and is useful.
- AniseAbyss 3y ago[dead]
- jquast 3y agoI would have disagreed about supporting 80286 PC-DOS and Apple ][ computers all the way to the year 2000 but supporting 2+Ghz 64-bit x86’s in 2023 isn’t really asking a lot.. and android phones in particular need to be prosecuted criminally for their ocean garbage
- ElectricalUnion 3y ago> 80286 PC-DOS You still need to support those, or your expensive factory automation platform stops working. Unless society as a whole is entirely on-board on paying factory renovations, or the environmental impact of such upheaval of scrapping away working manufacturing plants.
- coreyp_1 3y agoI just bought one of these "junk" mini PCS for less than $100 with decent specs, and it came with Windows 10 professional, but it did not qualify to be updated to Windows 11. I didn't even boot into windows. I immediately installed Ubuntu, and now it is my home automation and home media interface. Honestly, I can't think of anything more beneficial to the Linux community then suddenly having a lot of cheap computers with good specs that are not only merely adequate, but actually rather exceptional for the cost, all because of the advent of Windows 11. What was Microsoft thinking?!?
- jsbisviewtiful 3y ago> What was Microsoft thinking?!? Short-term profits.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoDevil's advocate: Profits from what exactly? Windows 11 is a free update and they don't make profits from the sale of new hardware since they're not in the business of selling hardware (barring the niche surface devices which don't really sell meaningful numbers to be profitable). Edit: -4 downvotes already? wow. What's with the downvotes my dudes? Should I juste come to HN to spam "hurr durr Microsft bad" for karma farming to coincide with the acceptable party line?
- CamperBob2 3y agoNothing is "free." Ever. If the update is "free," your attention and autonomy are the price. I'd be fine with that, if they offered an alternative for power users who don't want to participate in Microsoft's move-the-mouse-cursor-for-shitty-popup-celebrity-news corporate strategy. Even an expensive alternative! But they have chosen not to do so.
- olddustytrail 3y agoMicrosoft make money because business licenses for windows aren't free. You were downvoted because your comment was stupid. HTH.
- shmerl 3y agoGood opportunity to ditch Windows and install Linux. Happens every time.
- FourthProtocol 3y agoLinux is not an option for me. I think I've heard the "just move to Linix" thing more often than I've brushed my teeth. I'm staying with Windows both because I've been using Microsoft's tech since MS-Dos 2 back in 1985, and work is a Microsoft estate, again making Linux a no-go for me. That said, I have Windows 11 on my Surface, and usability stinks to high heaven, squared. And so I will stick with Windows 10. I'm keeping an eye on 11 via the Surface, but not hoping for usability to get easier in the near future...
- JohnFen 3y ago> work is a Microsoft estate, again making Linux a no-go for me. Why is that a factor? I use Windows at work, but at home all of my machines are Linux. It doesn't cause me any issues.
- ElectricalUnion 3y agoI would think this would be a plus, if anything; I don't want work and my personal life intermingled. The whole point of "Bring your own device" is corporate control and corporate safety.
- wkat4242 3y agoTry a good mainstream distribution with KDE. I think you'll like it a lot more than you imagine.
- ivraatiems 3y agoIt's absurd that this is the case; it's purely about short-term profit, as others have said. I regularly refurbish and resell machines from more than ten years ago which run Windows 10 (or Windows 11, if you're willing to modify it to accept an installation) just fine. For normal office or school use, there's nothing wrong with them! You need an SSD, about 8GB of RAM, and a first-generation i5 or i7 or newer, and you have a PC that is more than good enough for most people's needs. I am worried about how my business is going to be impacted by the forced retirement of Windows 10, but, I'll adapt, just as the industry always does. Probably, that looks like installing Windows 11 on unsupported hardware with a disclaimer and instructions on how to keep it updated. It's unfortunate, but given that the alternative is enormous amounts of e-waste, I'll take it. (For those who would say the alternative is Linux: Yes, for you or me, but not for the average customer. Linux machines won't sell.)
- turbohz 3y agoThe alternative is Linux
- woleium 3y agoThere are still plenty of windows xp machines out there. How will this be any different
- TacticalCoder 3y agoThe scam knows no limit. Make sure Windows 10 isn't updated anymore and then make sure Windows 11 isn't supported "because the hardware is too old", forcing people to buy new computers. As a sidenote for whatever reason I tried to install Windows 11 on an AMD 3700X (don't remember why exactly I did that as I typically don't run Windows). The AMD 3700X came out in mid 2019. Windows 11 refused to install for the hardware wasn't supported: I don't know if it was the mobo, the CPU, a configuration in the mobo... Really no clue. All I know is not only it failed but it failed without telling what wasn't supported. On a computer that was not even four years old. Meanwhile my wife is happily using Ubuntu on my old sixth gen Core i7 6700K from... 2015 (first Asus mobo that had a NVMe M.2 PCIe slot so in eight years I basically just upgraded the NVMe SSD to a more recent one). I agree with the other poster: it's an opportunity to have "old" computers and just install whatever Linux distro on them. All that "normies" need is a browser: I switched my 67 years old mother-in-law to Linux. If she can use Linux, nearly anyone can.
- wkat4242 3y agoOn a 3700X you can just switch on the eTPM and it should work. Most bioses come with it off. And no Microsoft doesn't tell you this with a clear message. But in my opinion this isn't really about security. It's more about DRM. Microsoft wants to appease the content providers by requiring TPM, supporting attestation etc. This way they can support running Android apps (and other things like their own store thing they're still pushing) but keep the user from messing with them under the hood. The same way macOS does with iOS apps. If you turn off system integrity protection on Mac you will lose the ability to run iOS apps.
- underseacables 3y agoI refuse to upgrade to windows 11. It's absolute garbage. It's Linux after this.
- RecycledEle 3y agoWhat if there was a tax when a company caused the creation of waste by refusing to update or support a product and also refused to release it as FOSS? Maybe $1 per pound / $2.20 per KG based on estimated ewaste. I would love to see cell phone providers who refuse to let me activate perfectly usable phones and Google who literally will not allow apps for older versions of Android in the Play Store change their ways.
- wkat4242 3y agoSuperPenguin to the rescue!!
- mrkeen 3y agoRemember folks, even when you 'buy' windows, it's not a purchase, it doesn't belong to you. I paid for Windows 10 on my one-and-only gaming machine. I am one user. I upgraded my gaming machine (same hard disk & Win 10 installation). Now it watermarks the screen with "Activate Windows. Go to Settings to activate Windows." even over the top of games.
- zokier 3y agoMeanwhile the flagship Nexus 5X reached EOL already in 2018, and I doubt there were many Android 6 devices with longer support. Yet it was released the same year as Windows 10...
- hexo 3y agoVery fine Prime Example of a software company artificially creating e-waste.
- tomjen3 3y agoMy guess: if people current computer can't upgrade to win11, they are either going to stay with win10, no matter what Microsoft says, or just stop using a classic computer and stay on their mobile. Sure there will be exceptions, some may migrate to mac or linux, but for the most part, most people just don't need a computer.
- simonblack 3y agoI still maintain that Win 7 was 'Peak Windows'. Anything since then is a downgrade. 10-year old computers these days are still very much perfectly usable machines. As one of the other posters says, 'most people only need a browser'. If you want to stay with Windows, just use that old Windows machine until it falls apart. If you don't want to stay with Windows, there are many Linux distros out there that work just as well as (better than!) Windows ever did.